WH40K Wrath & Glory Is Here!

As of right now, you can pick up the Warhammer 40K: Wrath & Glory core rulebook PDF from Cubicle 7 if you pre-order the hardcover (which is expected to ship this Autumn).

UPDATE -- you can also pick up the PDF on DriveThruRPG, and if you previously purchased the Ulisses version of the book, it will be automatically updated for you for free there.

 

[dr_ether]

But my point is, I already know those systems, can work with their complexity. What is another system going to give me that warrants the oppurtunity cost of learning it. None of them can get nearly as specific as those three systems I listed. So there are plenty of systems, but why take the oppurtunity cost of learnign them when you have systems that work for you.

I'm primarily a DM. I DM Hero I can DM anything. But it also means I have to acquire rules mastery over another system.

For me, I pick up new systems in particular because when done well system matters for reinforcing the tone and mood of the game.

So yes you could do horror with DnD, but games like Chronicles of Darkness or Chill have systems to reinforce particular themes. Likewise, while I could play any old scifi game, there is difference between a hard SF setting and how that game has systems that reinforce those themes, vs the more bombastic splatter punk of 40k rpg (which while I am biased I think the new system does better). If I want gutter fantasy, WHFRPG does that well, but then the systems and themes of Iron Kingdoms is again a different fantasy, and the systems there reinforce that too.

I fall very much into the "system matters" camp.

 

[Fenris-77]

Yup, systems that have well designed mechanics that support the core feel and tenets of the game are great. That's one of the reasons I have always shied away a little from universal systems like GURPS. Nothing wrong with them, just not my cuppa. One of my favorite things about Free League, for example, is the little tweaks they make to their engine for the different properties to really highlight the core themes.

 

[Jaeger]

But my point is, I already know those systems, can work with their complexity. ...

Certainly one can "work with their complexity"

But, why work with all that complexity if you don't have to?

I'm primarily a DM. I DM Hero I can DM anything. But it also means I have to acquire rules mastery over another system.

Much easier to get up to speed with other games that are nowhere close to Hero system / GURPS complexity levels of 'rules mastery'.

Especially considering that with tool kit systems like GURPs, and Hero, the GM has to do a ton of heavy lifting in modding and compiling the rules set for the game they want to run.

Much less effort to run a simpler system from a complete RPG written for the genre you want to run.

For me, I pick up new systems in particular because when done well system matters for reinforcing the tone and mood of the game.

This. I am also in the "system matters" camp.

So yes you could do horror with DnD, but games like Chronicles of Darkness or Chill have systems to reinforce particular themes. ...

Also worth noting that CoD is a much less complex system to run for long campaigns than DnD with its complexity level creep.

 

[Jaeger]

Yup, systems that have well designed mechanics that support the core feel and tenets of the game are great. ...One of my favorite things about Free League, for example, is the little tweaks they make to their engine for the different properties to really highlight the core themes.

This is a big reason why more people are choosing one of the different OGL systems over a "universal" one like GURPS or HERO, when they want to homebrew a specific type of game for a group.

Why try to wade through all the different dials and levers of GURPS or HERO - when you can just start with an OGL system that already does 90% of what you want to do, and is less complex from the get go to boot?

.

 

[Fenris-77]

This is a big reason why more people are choosing one of the different OGL systems over a "universal" one like GURPS or HERO, when they want to homebrew a specific type of game for a group.

Why try to wade through all the different dials and levers of GURPS or HERO - when you can just start with an OGL system that already does 90% of what you want to do, and is less complex from the get go to boot?

Factually correct. I love to hack and homebrew, but those system, and all their very useful knobs and dials, are more than I want to fiddle with. I'd rather take something that is, as you say, pretty much right already, and tweak it and maybe add some bespoke mechanics that really speak to the feel I want.

 

[Jaeger]

By all means, volunteer, remembering my caveat that I specified "D&D-style" games.

Lots of different D&D style low magic games listed here:

What is the best low-magic fantasy system?

Hiya! Warhammer Fantasy Role-Play (1st edition). ^_^ Paul L. Ming I love, and have used, the WH setting many times. But the system in any edition is junk.

www.enworld.org

No "magic" explanations needed to explain character advancement.

 

[Fenris-77]

I think its possible that @TwoSix is indexing more the quickness of D&D advancement and the complete divorce in the mechanics between what your character does and what they actually get better at. The system, unless you squint really hard, doesn't make a lick of sense. I play 5e, and I can suspend my disbelief, but it really isn't intuitive at all. Magic is a much better explanation for that than wonky genre conventions.

 

[Jaeger]

I think its possible that @TwoSix is indexing more the quickness of D&D advancement and the complete divorce in the mechanics between what your character does and what they actually get better at. The system, unless you squint really hard, doesn't make a lick of sense. I play 5e, and I can suspend my disbelief, but it really isn't intuitive at all. Magic is a much better explanation for that than wonky genre conventions.

I'll willingly concede that it is likely we are talking past each other. But the "low fantasy" OGL knock-offs in the other thread are much tighter games than the typical D&D experience.

Because yeah, 5e R.A.W. (System/Setting) is utter kitchen sink gonzo nonsense when you compare it to other genre's.

But "D&D" really has become it's own genre at this point.

My group usually plays other systems, but one player wanted to GM 5e.

So we are doing it. It works because our group makes it work, we roleplay the hell out of our characters and have lots of fun.

I could go on about the system, but most around here are probably tired of hearing it.

 

[Mournblade94]

For me, I pick up new systems in particular because when done well system matters for reinforcing the tone and mood of the game.

So yes you could do horror with DnD, but games like Chronicles of Darkness or Chill have systems to reinforce particular themes. Likewise, while I could play any old scifi game, there is difference between a hard SF setting and how that game has systems that reinforce those themes, vs the more bombastic splatter punk of 40k rpg (which while I am biased I think the new system does better). If I want gutter fantasy, WHFRPG does that well, but then the systems and themes of Iron Kingdoms is again a different fantasy, and the systems there reinforce that too.

I fall very much into the "system matters" camp.

Cubicle 7 already sold me. I love their version of WFRP probably better than 2e, but not 1e. I WOULD pick up this one from Cubicle 7 because I have tried and played a few of their systems.

I more mean I'm not as apt to pick up a system that is not from a publisher I know. I have what works for me, and if I do fantasy Im using D&D or Warhammer, if SCi fi its usually hard and its Traveller or Alternity. Then we have the licenses like Star Wars, Warhammer, etc, that I buy specifically for the WORLD. Like when I try DUNE.

I just wish Cubicle 7 could stay on schedule more. Before the plague they were really falling behind.

 

[dr_ether]

Well I think C7 had a number of things going on all at once;
Picking up W&G
Losing AIME/TOR
Moving their offices and changes in staff

Hopefully it will pick up soon.