D&D 5E Whack-a-mole gaming or being healed from 0 hp

[CapnZapp]

[MENTION=12731]CapnZapp[/MENTION]: Do you intend to amend the aura of life spell at all? It grants allies 1 hp whenever they start their turn in the radius with 0 hp. Will you make it so they gain 1 hp whenever they start their turn with between 0 and -10 hp? Will they still only gain a single hp out of it, or could it potentially heal them back up to 1 over the course of several rounds?

Just something to think about.

Thank you.

This is exactly the kind of constructive commentary you can wish for when you throw out a suggestion

Based on the wording of the spell and the fact it is a fourth level spell I am inclined to let it have its intended effect. That is: any creature at 0 or below is brought up to 1 (and thus full freedom to act).

I guess I could retool the spell into granting +1 hp/round, but really: that would turn the spell into something completely different than what it is now. Note how it even today does not add hit points. The spell sets your hit points.

You might be surprised at my decision. After all, isn't this the Whack-A-Mole spell if there ever was one? To this I say: well, its level means characters won't be able to spam it until your level is in the double digits (since only then will they be able to cast it more than once a day). This should mean it only arrives well after the campaign has been established. And at that level the difference between RAW and my suggestion, i.e. ten hit points, is a trivial amount. Meaning that most of the hp you save by not tracking negative hp all the way down to negative maximum hp is due to the relatively high level and not the spell. Having fundamental shifts in character abilities are quite okay when you change tiers.

 

[Psikerlord#]

Fun to play, but made the game easy mode.

These two things are mutually exclusive for me (as player and DM)

 

[Kalshane]

I'm wondering if any easy fix to "Whack-a-mole" isn't this: Death Saves stay until a short or long rest, outside of the use of something like Restoration or Heal. On dropping to 0 hp, you automatically check off a failed Death Save. (Since this would be immediately more lethal as a single attack could then kill the downed character, it might be worth raising the failed Death Save threshold to 4 or 5.)

Under these rules, playing Whack-a-Mole would be a really bad idea, because each time the person got dropped again, they'd be that much closer to death.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

I'm wondering if any easy fix to "Whack-a-mole" isn't this: Death Saves stay until a short or long rest, outside of the use of something like Restoration or Heal. On dropping to 0 hp, you automatically check off a failed Death Save. (Since this would be immediately more lethal as a single attack could then kill the downed character, it might be worth raising the failed Death Save threshold to 4 or 5.)

That seems a bit extreme, relative to the magnitude of the problem. In general, it's not much fun for a character to go from up-and-ambulatory to dead without any chance to save, and that would happen automatically on the third instance of hitting 0 in a given day. It's only generous relative to AD&D, but even then, not by a significant margin.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

That seems a bit extreme, relative to the magnitude of the problem. In general, it's not much fun for a character to go from up-and-ambulatory to dead without any chance to save, and that would happen automatically on the third instance of hitting 0 in a given day. It's only generous relative to AD&D, but even then, not by a significant margin.

It is incredibly generous relative to AD&D. You can heal from 0 to full HP instead of staying at 1 HP, and you don't lose all your spells.

You'd need to figure out however whether dying and Revivify resets you to zero failures or leaves you at three.

 

[ninjayeti]

A rival party of adventurers would almost certainly be aware of these tricks, so they'd try to finish off any down PCs before they could be healed. The PCs, of course, should endeavor to do the same if they have any sense whatsoever.

IMO, you're much more likely to end up with a brutal and deadly encounter in this scenario.

Yeah, this is one of the big issues for me with the wack-a-mole healing rules. Any halfway smart foe is going to understand that there is a big difference between "0 HP" and "out of the fight." If you ignore an unconscious foe, they will likely be back next round with FULL attacks, FULL damage, FULL AC, etc. Only an idiot plays wack-a-mole - rational NPCs are going to prioritize finishing off downed opponents.

So this creates a dilemma for the DM. Either 1) you have smart foes use sensible tactics, which likely kills PCs; 2) you play supposedly smart foes as idiots. Sure that ancient dragon has a mountain of adventurer bones in his lair, but he has no idea that healing spells exist ....

 

[ExploderWizard]

So this creates a dilemma for the DM. Either 1) you have smart foes use sensible tactics, which likely kills PCs; 2) you play supposedly smart foes as idiots. Sure that ancient dragon has a mountain of adventurer bones in his lair, but he has no idea that healing spells exist ....

OR you can make some house rules that make getting back up from zero just take more time than the length of a combat. Anyone who goes down stays put until the battle is over. There have been several good suggestions for how to do this in this thread. Monsters and smart NPCs will therefore not have any incentive to keep attacking downed foes since they they can be dealt with after the smoke clears.

 

[Rhenny]

Yeah, this is one of the big issues for me with the wack-a-mole healing rules. Any halfway smart foe is going to understand that there is a big difference between "0 HP" and "out of the fight." If you ignore an unconscious foe, they will likely be back next round with FULL attacks, FULL damage, FULL AC, etc. Only an idiot plays wack-a-mole - rational NPCs are going to prioritize finishing off downed opponents.

So this creates a dilemma for the DM. Either 1) you have smart foes use sensible tactics, which likely kills PCs; 2) you play supposedly smart foes as idiots. Sure that ancient dragon has a mountain of adventurer bones in his lair, but he has no idea that healing spells exist ....

or, the players adjust to foes attacking unconscious PCs and don't allow their party members to drop to 0 hp. They heal before they drop or they try to avoid combat if they get too low.

To me, this is the reaction I like from my players. It solves the problem without changing the rules.

 

[Fanaelialae]

Yeah, this is one of the big issues for me with the wack-a-mole healing rules. Any halfway smart foe is going to understand that there is a big difference between "0 HP" and "out of the fight." If you ignore an unconscious foe, they will likely be back next round with FULL attacks, FULL damage, FULL AC, etc. Only an idiot plays wack-a-mole - rational NPCs are going to prioritize finishing off downed opponents.

So this creates a dilemma for the DM. Either 1) you have smart foes use sensible tactics, which likely kills PCs; 2) you play supposedly smart foes as idiots. Sure that ancient dragon has a mountain of adventurer bones in his lair, but he has no idea that healing spells exist ....

I disagree. At least in my campaign worlds, classed characters are rare, and classed adventurers even moreso. Classed adventurers with healing capabilities then, are a subset of a very exclusive group. As such, "halfway smart" foes are unlikely to expect to face such characters. Even smart foes won't necessarily expect it, unless they've taken the time to research the party's abilities.

The ancient dragon presumably knows that healing spells exist, but if only a tiny portion of the creatures who have tried to plunder its hoard over the centuries possessed such abilities, it's not going to approach every fight with that assumption. It KNOWS that very few beings possess such powers. It KNOWS that even on the off chance that they do possess healing magic, it probably won't make a difference (based on the mountain of adventurer bones).

A fellow adventuring party is different because they are much like the PCs. They know the party's tricks because they can use them themselves.

Obviously, this is predicated on the idea that classed adventurers are rare. YMMV

 

[S'mon]

What I mean is that D&D is a game where you can easily take damage equal to half your maximum hp or more in a single round or even in a single monster's turn.

Seen that in 3e/PF, not really in 4e, 5e, or pre-3e after the first couple levels. 5e PCs
seem pretty durable relative to monster damage.