D&D 5E Whack-a-mole gaming or being healed from 0 hp

[discosoc]

You still merely describe basic facts rather than addressing the strategy gains involved.

Yes, that can happen. So what?

The fighter still soaked a 30 point attack in such a way only 1 point of healing is required to negate all that damage.

Who cares about the fighter soaking damage when the cleric just got dropped from the Ettins second attack? If you don't understand that, I guess maybe something like a tactical mini's game is better suited for you. I really don't know what else to say, because you're so fixated on the fighter cheating the system. Forest? Trees? Anyone?

 

[Rhenny]

I was on the other end of anti-wack-a-mole the other night. I was playing my 5th level Tempest Cleric and when I healed my fallen comrade, the enemy shot me with some necrotic bolt that did 38 damage. I only had 28 hp. I went down like a wet rag. No more healing for us that encounter. Luckily, our Dwarven fighter, who only speaks Dwarven and Undercommon, was able to impress one of the adversaries who spoke Undercommon to convince her to stand down. To be fair, it was kind of a duel between our Warlock and the adversary. My PC violated the rules of the duel (for good reason because the Warlock was not really the one who accepted the challenge...but that's a different story) so my PC paid for it.

 

[jrowland]

I am leaning towards Failed Death Save = 1 point of exhaustion but that just puts the onus on the in-combat healing whack-a-mole to happen immediately after a PC falls.

I have been toying with an idea (I hate whack a mole too):

You drop to 0hp you don't fall unconscious! You are still up! Huzzah! But...
1) Take immediate point of Exhaustion
2) Still make Death Saves: Fail = Add point of Exhaustion, 3 Fails = pass out (unconscious), Success = nothing, 3 successes = Stop making saves, lose 1 point exhaustion. Crit success = lose 1 point exhaustion and have 1hp. You keep making death saves until you get three successes (or a crit) or you die from exhaustion (6 exhaustion!)
3) Healing when at 0hp = each dice used (or each 5hp for effects like Lay on Hands) removes 1 point of exhaustion. Once all exhaustion is gone, then healing HP can begin (so 3 exhaustion is healed by a 4d8 cure wounds with only 1d8 delivering HP)
4) Any damage from a single source = gain exhaustion and lose 1 hd (or another exhaustion if no HD)

Probably need to call it "Wounds" not exhaustion so it doesn't heal with Barbarian Beserker rage-induced exhaustion (although they should stack for penalty)

something like that. first time I put on "paper" so its very rough mind download. You could make success death saves lose exhaustion as you swim in and out of effectiveness. Actually, if you are up and fighting, you are a legitimate target, so you could easily reach 6 exhaustion very quickly, maybe success = lose 1 point exhaustion is a better option.

It needs playtesting, obviously.

 

[Lanefan]

I have been toying with an idea (I hate whack a mole too):

You drop to 0hp you don't fall unconscious! You are still up! Huzzah! But...
1) Take immediate point of Exhaustion
2) Still make Death Saves: Fail = Add point of Exhaustion, 3 Fails = pass out (unconscious), Success = nothing, 3 successes = Stop making saves, lose 1 point exhaustion. Crit success = lose 1 point exhaustion and have 1hp. You keep making death saves until you get three successes (or a crit) or you die from exhaustion (6 exhaustion!)
3) Healing when at 0hp = each dice used (or each 5hp for effects like Lay on Hands) removes 1 point of exhaustion. Once all exhaustion is gone, then healing HP can begin (so 3 exhaustion is healed by a 4d8 cure wounds with only 1d8 delivering HP)
4) Any damage from a single source = gain exhaustion and lose 1 hd (or another exhaustion if no HD)

Probably need to call it "Wounds" not exhaustion so it doesn't heal with Barbarian Beserker rage-induced exhaustion (although they should stack for penalty)

something like that. first time I put on "paper" so its very rough mind download. You could make success death saves lose exhaustion as you swim in and out of effectiveness. Actually, if you are up and fighting, you are a legitimate target, so you could easily reach 6 exhaustion very quickly, maybe success = lose 1 point exhaustion is a better option.

It needs playtesting, obviously.

Interesting ideas.

A few suggestions:

For point 2: As written you're in effect giving 3 extra death saves on hitting 0 h.p. (the three you get while still conscious); and while fails add exhaustion you're still giving that conscious 0 h.p. character 3 more rounds in which to affect the combat. At low level, where 0 h.p. is never far away, this could make a massive difference. Now if you do this for the monsters as well I'd be cool with it, but otherwise it seems a bit too generous.

For point 4: There needs to be something to prevent someone at 0 h.p. soaking up huge damage (e.g. getting hit by a 25 point fireball) at mere cost of an exhaustion level. I'd suggest each 5 points total damage while at 0 add an exhaustion level, and 15 or more at once = dead, period. (numbers subject to amendment but you get the idea)

Lan-"we used to joke in our games about 0 h.p. being 'fine fighting form'; this would make it true"-efan

 

[jrowland]

Interesting ideas.

A few suggestions:

For point 2: As written you're in effect giving 3 extra death saves on hitting 0 h.p. (the three you get while still conscious); and while fails add exhaustion you're still giving that conscious 0 h.p. character 3 more rounds in which to affect the combat. At low level, where 0 h.p. is never far away, this could make a massive difference. Now if you do this for the monsters as well I'd be cool with it, but otherwise it seems a bit too generous.

I'd rather not keep track of monsters at this level of detail. Ohp =dead in my book, but maybe for important "bosses". It is generous at low levels, I'll admit, but the exhaustion levels are more onerous too (1 point Exh is Dis, and low levels don't have as many ways to counter with Adv).

For point 4: There needs to be something to prevent someone at 0 h.p. soaking up huge damage (e.g. getting hit by a 25 point fireball) at mere cost of an exhaustion level. I'd suggest each 5 points total damage while at 0 add an exhaustion level, and 15 or more at once = dead, period. (numbers subject to amendment but you get the idea)

This ties in with point 2 at low levels. The difference between hit=exhaustion and 1 exh/5 damage is not much at those levels, but however you do it, getting hit while at 0hp is bad news. I'd be more inclined to keep hit=exh and perhaps add "lingering wounds" for each hit>con (or some other number) if you want to dial it to the danger zone. Also, enemies (smart ones anyway) could pile it on the character, focusing fire to "finish him" as it were. You could easily go from 1 exh to 6 exh in a single round.

I might have to formalize this a bit. Its really a data dump at this point. I have been toying with making a "Wounds" system, and my current iteration is HD=Wounds with added HD (you have Level + con mod HD, but use only level HD for HP) and on a Crit or going to 0hp you automatically use HD to mitigate Damage to Zero. The number of HD used = Severity of wound. This keeps you up, preventing Whack-a-mole as long as you have hit dice. It also prevents excessive short rest uses for HP gain. However, once at 0hp and 0 HD, whack-a-mole combat healing returns. So the above treatment is derived from me trying add in exhaustion when at 0HD and can no longer auto-use HD.

So, long-winded way to say, yes, it seems generous, but comes from a stance of beating the characters down in another way.

I'll have to clean this up and maybe post it here for the hive mind to rip apart.

 

[Yunru]

A long time ago, on a forum far far away, I reposted the following suggestion that I made on a thread here:
Have failed Death Saving Throws only reset after a short or long rest.

 

[n0nym]

In my game, everytime a character hits 0hp, I hand the player a shiny d20 and he gets to roll for a surprise lingering wound ! In addition, each wound reduces the character's maximum hp by 10% (this effect only leaves after a 3 days rest and DC15 Constitution check). A second wound reduces his max hp by another 10%. A third wound means he's dead.

There's no whack-a-mole-effect in my game because of this. If they get back up with 10hp, they know death is around the corner.

I plan on also putting a "death at negative constitution score" condition because let's face it, it's virtually impossible to die from a single blow after a certain level and I find that a bit odd.

 

[jrowland]

I've created this thread/download so as not to hijack this thread more than I already have.

 

[SgtScrappy]

The way I am going to fix healing word wack-a-mole im my future game, I plan to make the following 2 changes:
- 1) Healing a unconscious target will stabilize the target. (not wake him up).
- 2) A stabilized target can be woken up with a "slap". "Slap" will be a bonus action. And it can ONLY be performed while kneeling.

Kneeling will cause for ennemies to have advantage when attacking you.

The following combo's can wake the target up:
- Healing word by player_1, then an player_2 can slap him. A ranged character or a spellcaster can even slap without wasting his action.
- Cure wounds (touch), and instant slap him.

I have yet to playtest this though.