D&D General What’s The Big Deal About Psionics?

[Cadence]

Ether is weave.

And a mind emanates a weave, an aura of influence.

I thought you didn't want psionics to just be more weave, or was that someone else.

Do you really want an other Wizard that does anything and everything?

Why would a pyromancer be able to do everything? (Or do you want each flavor of primal or not to get everything under those umbrellas?).

Dividing psi into two power sources allows for a better thematic organization.


Emphasize that the primal power source is mind magic. The pyromancer is mental.

Why should druids and barbarians (or whatever else is primal) be mental? Or are you stealing the hope of making them 4e-esque primal? Or did you want it to be that part of mind magic was primal, and not that primal is part of mind magic?

And this is also true for primal Druid, and why different from Cleric.


The substances and motions somewhat correspond, and in the IChing, tree relates to air in the sense of gas expanding and encompassing.

ether (gravity) ~ soil (space, no motion)

earth (solid) ~ metal (contraction)
air (gas) ~ tree (expansion)
water (liquid) ~ water (descension)
fire (plasma) ~ fire (ascension)

It feels like you are trying to force to disparate things from different cultures together. Is that akin to those who try to make all world religions work like D&D gods and goddesses?

 

[Vaalingrade]

Wait I thought the Fifth Element was love?

The fifth element is...

SURPRISE

 

[Maxperson]

Gygax says exactly that Druid gets spells from trees, sun, moon, and nature.


Wizards can have deities too.

1e DMG page 38

"Each cleric must have his or her own deity, so when a new player opts to become a cleric (including a druid), you must inform them as to which deities exist in your campaign milieu and allow the individual to select which one of them he or she will serve."

Since the PHB mentions sun, moon, etc. these would be different deities. This is especially important, because the sun, moon and nature aren't actually gods in 1e, so they don't have servants and don't communicate directly. Holding them to be deities and them being deities are two very different things. If the druid wants spells of 3rd level or higher, he needs a legitimate nature god.

1e DMG page 118

"Thereafter the cleric or druid must place the item upon his or her altar and invoke the direct favor of his or her deity to instill a special power into the item."

Again, since the sun, moon and nature are not gods, they cannot perform the above. It's clear that druids are expected to have a legitimate deity.

PHB Page 40

"Clerical spells, including the druidic, are bestowed by the gods, so that the cleric need but pray for a few hours and the desired verbal and somatic spell components will be placed properly in his or her mind."

Since the sun, moon and nature are not gods, the druid without a legitimate deity cannot have spells bestowed.

 

[Yaarel]

I thought you didn't want psionics to just be more weave, or was that someone else.

"The" Weave is cosmic, namely the entanglement of the magic inherent in all things that exist.

The mind aura is different. It is a kind of personal Weave around an individual mind only, and relates to subjective reality and objective reality being two sides of the same coin. One subjectively visualizes a wish and wills the wish into real existence, objectively.

This local personal Weave is similar to the cosmic Weave in the sense that both make possible normal spellcasting.

Why would a pyromancer be able to do everything? (Or do you want each flavor of primal or not to get everything under those umbrellas?).

The Psion the psionic source already covers many spell themes. The elementism would be one of the few themes that psionic doesnt do.

If it the Psion also does elemental magic, that would be pretty much any and every spell in D&D.

Why should druids and barbarians (or whatever else is primal) be mental? Or are you stealing the hope of making them 4e-esque primal? Or did you want it to be that part of mind magic was primal, and not that primal is part of mind magic?

A berserkr for example is strictly mental, much like psychometabolism. Form a mental image and shift the body into that image. The berserkr would actually be nonelemental using the psionic power source.

But the Druid is mainly elemental and primal.



For me, "primal" is mainly a thematic tag for elementalism:

• earthy land
• watery river
• airy weather
• fiery sunlight
• planty tree

It feels like you are trying to force to disparate things from different cultures together. Is that akin to those who try to make all world religions work like D&D gods and goddesses?

Tibet and Japan use both tradititions: Dao motion and Hellenistic substance. They equate the five this way.

 

[Yaarel]

1e DMG page 38

"Each cleric must have his or her own deity, so when a new player opts to become a cleric (including a druid), you must inform them as to which deities exist in your campaign milieu and allow the individual to select which one of them he or she will serve."

Since the PHB mentions sun, moon, etc. these would be different deities. This is especially important, because the sun, moon and nature aren't actually gods in 1e, so they don't have servants and don't communicate directly. Holding them to be deities and them being deities are two very different things. If the druid wants spells of 3rd level or higher, he needs a legitimate nature god.

1e DMG page 118

"Thereafter the cleric or druid must place the item upon his or her altar and invoke the direct favor of his or her deity to instill a special power into the item."

Again, since the sun, moon and nature are not gods, they cannot perform the above. It's clear that druids are expected to have a legitimate deity.

PHB Page 40

"Clerical spells, including the druidic, are bestowed by the gods, so that the cleric need but pray for a few hours and the desired verbal and somatic spell components will be placed properly in his or her mind."

Since the sun, moon and nature are not gods, the druid without a legitimate deity cannot have spells bestowed.

I already discussed this earlier. The "deity" might be one or more trees.

And in any case, whether deities exist or not, and the kinds of mythic concepts that a deity might be, exactly, depends on what the 1e DM wants for the campaign setting.

 

[Maxperson]

I already discussed this earlier. The "deity" might be one or more trees.

Find trees in the Deities & Demigods. I'm betting that you can't, since despite any belief of a druid, trees are not gods. A druid who uses trees to get spells won't get any past 2nd level. At that point the spells are only from belief and not from the god. 3rd level spells and higher required a real god with real servants.

And in any case, whether deities exist or not, and the kinds of mythic concepts that a deity might be, exactly, depends on what the 1e DM wants for the campaign setting.

Sure. The 1e DM could have house ruled in some tree gods. I agree with that.

 

[Yaarel]

Find trees in the Deities & Demigods. I'm betting that you can't, since despite any belief of a druid, trees are not gods. A druid who uses trees to get spells won't get any past 2nd level. At that point the spells are only from belief and not from the god. 3rd level spells and higher required a real god with real servants.

Sure. The 1e DM could have house ruled in some tree gods. I agree with that.

I dont care about the 1e Deities & Demigods. It is a noncore product and is strictly optional, like Dragon magazine articles are. We have never opted in.

 

[Cadence]

I dont care about the 1e Deities & Demigods. It is a noncore product and is strictly optional, like Dragon magazine articles are. We have never opted in.

The things in Deities and Demigods and Dragon back up and/or explain the creators thoughts in the PHB and DMG and would seem useful in interpretation and parsing unclear things.

If the point is only using "core" things, many of your extrapolations are of your own creation and not core, and thus irrelevant. Seemingly even more irrelevant than the non-core books as many more players probably know pieces of the non-core books than know your personal musings on how you would do things.

So, I'm guessing the point isn't to just use core things... (because it would be a much more boring thread without your personal musings and extrapolations).

 

[Maxperson]

I dont care about the 1e Deities & Demigods. It is a noncore product and is strictly optional, like Dragon magazine articles are. We have never opted in.

Okay. Trees still weren't a god unless the DM created some. The line from the PHB doesn't make them gods.

 

[Guest 7034872]

The fifth element is...

SURPRISE

Now somehow I can't stop thinking of the Spanish Inquisition.

No, don't get up--I'll see myself out.