D&D General What’s The Big Deal About Psionics?

[Steampunkette]

So once more I say:

There's people who don't want it. And if it were made unique and interesting to appeal to the players who -do- want it, wouldn't bother playing it. They're not harmed by it not being there, and not benefitted or harmed by creating it.

Then there's the people who do, and they'd benefit if it were made.

However with 5.5e coming down the pipeline, it's not going to be made in this edition. Which is why I'll keep waiting for the Voidrunner's Codex, by EN Publishing, which -will- have a Psion class and also some sort of Psychic Warrior concept alongside it, and hope it's something special, rather than just a new Wizard.

(It's obviously not out, yet, and still being written).

 

[Yaarel]

I am unsure why psionic fandom seems so "zero sum".

It is possible to have more than one psionic class. Especially when each class fulfills such different needs.

 

[Mind of tempest]

I am unsure why psionic fandom seems so "zero sum".

It is possible to have more than one psionic class. Especially when each class fulfills such different needs.

we are likely to only get one hence the zero-sum.

 

[Staffan]

And you can trade them if you don't like them. It's one spell at each of first, and fifth levels which you can trade immediately and two spells at seventh so you're going to have a dead spell for a single level.

It's still an indication of aberrant influence on psionics. And I do not want that. I want the default state of psionics to be in mindscapes, where psychic battles are fought using constructs of pure psychic energy. Aberrations can be around as a taint on that, but they should not be what psionics are about.

How's it limited? You do realise you can turn a spell slot into sorcery points equal to that spell's level as a bonus action? And you can then spend a number of sorcery points equal to the spell's slot to cast it.

Well, for one thing I can only use it on the specific spells from Psionic Spells. I can't use Psionic Spells to cast phantasmal force or fear (both very psi-appropriate spells). I'll admit that I missed that Aberrant Minds get a better exchange rate on sorcery points for casting those however – normally a slot costs 1-2 points more than you get from it.

But the big issue is that the Aberrant Mind is not a psion class. It is a sorcerer. It has access to the whole sorcerer list plus a little bonus, which is full of spells that are completely inappropriate for a psion. And if you voluntarily limit yourself to the spells that are psi-appropriate (meaning they're reasonable to explain as ESP, telepathy, telekinesis, and maybe a little teleportation), there are only a handful of spells available at each level (from 1 at 9th to 16 at 2nd level). That might be enough to make a psion, but it's not enough to make psions as important and varied a part of the world as wizards are. There's no aura alteration, no déjà vu, no astral caravan, no false sensory input (but instead a bunch of image-based illusions), no mind blank, no mind probe, no object reading, no déjà vu, no precognition, and no low-level telekinesis. It is a pale reflection of what psionics could do in 2e and 3e.

 

[Steampunkette]

I am unsure why psionic fandom seems so "zero sum".

It is possible to have more than one psionic class. Especially when each class fulfills such different needs.

we are likely to only get one hence the zero-sum.

^That.

No one at WotC is chomping at the bit to release a second Druid that is like the Druid but uses a different system to Wild Shape and Interact with Plants and Animals.

Once such a class exists, that's it.

 

[Mind of tempest]

It's still an indication of aberrant influence on psionics. And I do not want that. I want the default state of psionics to be in mindscapes, where psychic battles are fought using constructs of pure psychic energy. Aberrations can be around as a taint on that, but they should not be what psionics are about.


Well, for one thing I can only use it on the specific spells from Psionic Spells. I can't use Psionic Spells to cast phantasmal force or fear (both very psi-appropriate spells). I'll admit that I missed that Aberrant Minds get a better exchange rate on sorcery points for casting those however – normally a slot costs 1-2 points more than you get from it.

But the big issue is that the Aberrant Mind is not a psion class. It is a sorcerer. It has access to the whole sorcerer list plus a little bonus, which is full of spells that are completely inappropriate for a psion. And if you voluntarily limit yourself to the spells that are psi-appropriate (meaning they're reasonable to explain as ESP, telepathy, telekinesis, and maybe a little teleportation), there are only a handful of spells available at each level (from 1 at 9th to 16 at 2nd level). That might be enough to make a psion, but it's not enough to make psions as important and varied a part of the world as wizards are. There's no aura alteration, no déjà vu, no astral caravan, no false sensory input (but instead a bunch of image-based illusions), no mind blank, no mind probe, no object reading, no déjà vu, no precognition, and no low-level telekinesis. It is a pale reflection of what psionics could do in 2e and 3e.

I do not think we would ever get the first bit as that died in 3e.

 

[James Gasik]

Given that Aberrations include some of the premier psychic entities in the game's lore, such as Illithids and Aboleths, I'm afraid we're quite stuck with them. If a new Psionic system did emerge, there'd quickly be a new "Psionic Mind Flayer" to go with it. I mean, I saw it happen in Second Edition and Third Edition, after all.

 

[Mind of tempest]

Given that Aberrations include some of the premier psychic entities in the game's lore, such as Illithids and Aboleths, I'm afraid we're quite stuck with them. If a new Psionic system did emerge, there'd quickly be a new "Psionic Mind Flayer" to go with it. I mean, I saw it happen in Second Edition and Third Edition, after all.

that can just be a monster with the new casting included in the statblock.

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

Magic spells in D&D will always have certain things. 9 levels, 8 schools, Fireball will be level 3… that kind of stuff that we all understand is essential to the D&D brand we know.

For me, a D&D psionics could have 5–6 disciplines. Maybe divided into sciences and devotions. Maybe even a dirt simple mind dueling thing to break out.

If you fill in the disciplines with mostly re-categorized PHB spells, ¯\(ツ)/¯ okay that’s fine.

Sure it is all feel and nostalgia.

 

[Yaarel]

There is more than arcane class, more than one divine class, more than one martial class, even more than one primal class. Its ok to have more than one psionic class.