What 3rd level spell should a Vow of Peace/Poverty sorcerer take?
- Thread starter Tidus4444
- Start date
You could make the same argument about Color Spray (if he blinds the bad guys, his friends sure as hell aren't going to take that opportunity to run away) Enlarge Person, and maybe Hypnotic Pattern. It works as well as most buff and non-damaging combat spells one can take.RangerWickett said:
cmrscorpio
Explorer
If you've got Spell Compendium and are looking for a good offensive spell, Great Thunderclap is good. It requires one of each saving throw and has the potential to stun, deafen, and/or knock prone creatures that fail saves.
Mustrum_Ridcully
Legend
Let's be honest. You can't be a true Pacifist and still be a viable D&D character (that doesn't spoil the fun of others). I mean, you could try with a Warlock/Bard character, and "diplomance" your enemies to see things your way, but what will the other characters do?RangerWickett said:
roguerouge
First Post
All right.
You're playing the spell caster version of a paladin. It's a great concept, completely playable... and dependent on everyone else to play it well.
Did you get all the players on board with it? Are they going to place you in impossible moral quandries by chopping your charmed, blinded, and stunned opponents to bits? Or are they going to follow your character's lead and knock 'em out, taking the attack penalties to deal nonlethal damage?
Clearly your character concept is very, very dependent on DM mercy. And you've placed the DM in a bind. Your spells give you tons of "save or lose" options against humanoids, but if you use them, you might have to watch your friends kill the opponents you made helpless. That's a time bomb party dynamic and/or moral dilemma if played right and a bit of a realism breaker if not RPed, as the other posters have pointed out. Spells that buff your allies have the same issues.
So, your DM throws constructs and undead at you, which cuts party tension. (To prevent: "Oh, I could have hit the guy, but I had to take the attack penalty to do nonlethal damage, because SOMEONE just had to read BoED!") The only problem is that your spell selection is nerfed when he does that.
Talk with your DM about spell selection.
Absent that talk, the most multi-purpose solution is battlefield control spells like web and stinking cloud, not burning feats to make fireballs and magic missiles worthwhile. Fog cloud and obscuring mist might be good first level substitutes.
You're playing the spell caster version of a paladin. It's a great concept, completely playable... and dependent on everyone else to play it well.
Did you get all the players on board with it? Are they going to place you in impossible moral quandries by chopping your charmed, blinded, and stunned opponents to bits? Or are they going to follow your character's lead and knock 'em out, taking the attack penalties to deal nonlethal damage?
Clearly your character concept is very, very dependent on DM mercy. And you've placed the DM in a bind. Your spells give you tons of "save or lose" options against humanoids, but if you use them, you might have to watch your friends kill the opponents you made helpless. That's a time bomb party dynamic and/or moral dilemma if played right and a bit of a realism breaker if not RPed, as the other posters have pointed out. Spells that buff your allies have the same issues.
So, your DM throws constructs and undead at you, which cuts party tension. (To prevent: "Oh, I could have hit the guy, but I had to take the attack penalty to do nonlethal damage, because SOMEONE just had to read BoED!") The only problem is that your spell selection is nerfed when he does that.
Talk with your DM about spell selection.
Absent that talk, the most multi-purpose solution is battlefield control spells like web and stinking cloud, not burning feats to make fireballs and magic missiles worthwhile. Fog cloud and obscuring mist might be good first level substitutes.
roguerouge
First Post
Just to clarify the tone of the last post: I love the character concept, although I think it would work best in a single PC campaign.
Back on topic...
I see that you have obscuring mist in your first level spells. But looking at your general party complement of an archer, a cleric, a rogue, and a VoP/VoP sorcerer, I would say that battlefield control spells are even more important in your case.
I'd look to get, ASAP:
2nd level:
Summon Swarm: Summons swarm of bats, rats, or spiders.
Web: Fills 20-ft.-radius spread with sticky spiderwebs.
Fog Cloud: Fog obscures vision.
Darkness: 20-ft. radius of supernatural shadow.
3rd level:
Stinking Cloud: Nauseating vapors, 1 round/level.
Summon Monster III: Calls extraplanar creature to fight for you.
In general, the summon monster spell's not a bad idea: you can attack lethally the baddies you can attack, you get your melee jonesing satisfied, they can serve as living battlefield control, can perform misc. services, and you can command them to attack nonlethally if you can communicate with them. Plus, at the third level, you get access to the first and second iterations of Summon Monster! Three spells in one!
And for enchantment/illusion balance:
Hold Person: Paralyzes one humanoid for 1 round/level.
Touch of Idiocy: Subject takes 1d6 points of Int, Wis, and Cha damage.
Major Image: As silent image, plus sound, smell and thermal effects.
Back on topic...
I see that you have obscuring mist in your first level spells. But looking at your general party complement of an archer, a cleric, a rogue, and a VoP/VoP sorcerer, I would say that battlefield control spells are even more important in your case.
I'd look to get, ASAP:
2nd level:
Summon Swarm: Summons swarm of bats, rats, or spiders.
Web: Fills 20-ft.-radius spread with sticky spiderwebs.
Fog Cloud: Fog obscures vision.
Darkness: 20-ft. radius of supernatural shadow.
3rd level:
Stinking Cloud: Nauseating vapors, 1 round/level.
Summon Monster III: Calls extraplanar creature to fight for you.
In general, the summon monster spell's not a bad idea: you can attack lethally the baddies you can attack, you get your melee jonesing satisfied, they can serve as living battlefield control, can perform misc. services, and you can command them to attack nonlethally if you can communicate with them. Plus, at the third level, you get access to the first and second iterations of Summon Monster! Three spells in one!
And for enchantment/illusion balance:
Hold Person: Paralyzes one humanoid for 1 round/level.
Touch of Idiocy: Subject takes 1d6 points of Int, Wis, and Cha damage.
Major Image: As silent image, plus sound, smell and thermal effects.
roguerouge
First Post
Mistwell said:
No. I'm giving him options of battlefield control spells, while suggesting that he either select one or re-boot a few more spells with the DM's guidance.
Nifft
Penguin Herder
If you prohibit even "help my buddies" actions, you're requiring that the character be a burden to the party. The nonviolent thing already imposes enough limits on his actions, IMHO.RangerWickett said:
Your logic sounds like it could also be extended to de-buff spells: "Let me slow you so my buddies can chop you up more easily."
So the dude can't attack directly, can't buff his allies, and (if I'm reading you correctly) can't hinder his foes. What does he have left to do?
- - -
I'd prohibit spells that cause lethal damage, even if it's indirectly. The monster summoning spells would be out (vs. living foes) unless you can communicate with the critter and make it do non-lethal damage (or make it just block, trip, cast nonlethal spells, or whatever). I'd do the same for the dominate spells -- IMHO you can't dominate someone into doing an action you couldn't do yourself.
Cheers, -- N
