What actually occured between TSR and Role Aids?

[Delta]

But it is a violation to say something is "compatable with" without permission, right? For instance, I can't start selling cleaning rags and write on the packaging "compatable with Pledge", not without permission of whomever controls that trademark.

When I go into a drug store (say, Boston or New York) every single generic medicine has "compare to Advil Extra Strength" or somesuch on the box. Every razor blade cartridge says "fits Gillette Mac III" or whatever on it, in smallish type. Looks pretty accepted to me.

 

[Erik Mona]

I would like to find out what the deal is with the RoleAids IP. I would love to see them in pdf form and even more I'd love to see them updated to d20. If TSR bought them out I'd love to have WotC sell them as $4 pdfs through Paizo along with their other old edition products.

Demons rocked. As did many of their D&D products.

About 2000 or so Wizards of the Coast was keeping track of the Role-Aids proper nouns and trademarks in their copyright/trademark database. I strongly suspect that they no longer do so, but they were still aware that they owned the copyrights to this stuff as recently as when I worked there a few years back.

--Erik

 

[SuStel]

WotC could presumably release it on pdf, if they thought there was sufficient demand.

If there were sufficient demand there wouldn't be a warehouse with fifteen-year-old leftover product.

 

[RFisher]

If there were sufficient demand there wouldn't be a warehouse with fifteen-year-old leftover product.

I don't think there is such a warehouse.

The long-awaited appearance of the original D&D set as a legal PDF gives hope that we may yet see more OOP stuff Wizards owns that the ESD program never got to. Although, I would assume the oD&D set is in bigger demand than the Role Aids line.

 

[Flynn]

When I go into a drug store (say, Boston or New York) every single generic medicine has "compare to Advil Extra Strength" or somesuch on the box. Every razor blade cartridge says "fits Gillette Mac III" or whatever on it, in smallish type. Looks pretty accepted to me.

Have you looked at who owns the shell companies that produce those meds? Or are you aware of any legal agreements between different companies in regards to those statements? I don't pretend to know the legalese behind it all, but given things like the Mayfair/TSR stuff we're talking about, I'd assume there's something involved that's more than appears at first blush.

Just a thought,
Flynn

 

[Glyfair]

About 2000 or so Wizards of the Coast was keeping track of the Role-Aids proper nouns and trademarks in their copyright/trademark database. I strongly suspect that they no longer do so, but they were still aware that they owned the copyrights to this stuff as recently as when I worked there a few years back.

The big question is whether they renewed the trademarks or not. I believe it can be looked up (I know new applications can be looked up). However, I believe the trademarks have to be used to stay current.

Remember, Hasbro lost the trademark to the name Runequest, which allowed Issaries to license the name to Mongoose. Also, Games Workshop lost the trademark to Heroquest, which allowed Issaries to rename Hero Wars to the originally intended name.

 

[Contrarian]

I talked to some TSR staffers about this case back when it was still in the courts. Two things they said that I've never been able to verify:

1) TSR's original case against Mayfair was complicated because old management had OKed Mayfair producing D&D-compatible stuff, much as it had OKed Judge's Guild. (I know Gygax says that Brian Blume was responsible for the JG deal.) The crazy 1984 dealing was an effort by TSR to constrain what Mayfair could do with that permission, because the original contract wasn't very detailed. (1982, incidentally, is the year TSR cancelled Judge's Guild's license to print D&D supplements.)

2) Although the court documents outline the official reasons for going after Mayfair, there might be some unofficial reasons. The game designers I spoke to said TSR management was irritated by Mayfairs Witches supplement and Demons product line, because those products were focusing on subject matter that TSR management was removing from official products. To a lesser extent, there was also some concern that Mayfair had started published 2E-compatible supplements (Witches has non-weapon proficiencies), which some TSR people didn't think Mayfair had permission to use.

Again, that's all second-hand info, from game designers who probably didn't follow the case that closely. Take it with a grain of salt.

 

[Michael Dean]

Me, I was just surprised that any product, back in the '80s, featured the word "AIDS" prominently in its name.



And why didn't the makers of Rolaids anti-acid tablets get miffed with Mayfair Games?

Even worse, there used to be a dietary supplement you could buy called "Aids" back in the late 70's and early 80's. That's why when I first heard about the real Aids, my junior high mind kept thinking, what the hell's wrong with these diet pills that keep killing everybody?

Unsurprisingly, the dietary supplement is no longer around.

 

[Christian]

Even worse, there used to be a dietary supplement you could buy called "Aids" back in the late 70's and early 80's. That's why when I first heard about the real Aids, my junior high mind kept thinking, what the hell's wrong with these diet pills that keep killing everybody?

Unsurprisingly, the dietary supplement is no longer around.

They were called 'Ayds', actually. Still--way too close!

Too bad--those were really tasty!

 

[Delta]

Have you looked at who owns the shell companies that produce those meds? Or are you aware of any legal agreements between different companies in regards to those statements? I don't pretend to know the legalese behind it all, but given things like the Mayfair/TSR stuff we're talking about, I'd assume there's something involved that's more than appears at first blush.

I think the burden would be to demonstrate that there was a relationship or agreement such as you suggest. It's pretty unbelievable to think that every generic product in the entire store just happens to have some licensing agreement behind the scenes.

Just like every movie rental store I go into has a "Like that? You'll love this!" rack. Or every indie band has promotions comparing itself to some more established band.