What Archetypes Deserve Classes in a Fantasy Game?

[Merlion]

Thanks Josh...~beats sig with a Herring~

 

[AFGNCAAP]

On topic; I think the Gray Mouser is actually more like an Unfettered than a Rogue, in a lot of ways. And Fafhrd himself has some "thiefy" skills as well.

Very true--not as "thiefy" as Gray Mouser, but "thiefy" nonetheless. Another very "thiefy" character is Conan, as well as some of his adventuring companions.

However, unless the story was set in a D&D setting & published by TSR/WotC, there isn't going to be very many characters who'll easily fit into a simple class--most likely, those that do are background characters rather than the main protagonist(s). Looking at some "Giants in the Earth" articles from old Dragon magazine issues will give you a good example of this--not necessary the background characters, but more of the main protagonists.

Also, even if the character only has a single class listed, check the character description to see if there are any exceptions to the rules--there may be, whether it's how magic works in the character's setting, to using a weapon proficiently even though his class normally wouldn't allow it.

 

[Merlion]

~goes off topic for a moment~
HAHAHAH it worked I finaly got the little blue sorcerer to work as my avatar HAHAHAHAHA

You may now return to your regularly scheduled conversation.

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

Priest and cleric are certainly very present in the non-fantasy literature DnD used for inspiration. You know, the sort of heroic, chivalric, historical, and sacred literature that was the inspiration for fantasy in the first place. Though it is certainly true that the DnD cleric enjoys few direct corralaries I do think it is a good mish of ideas and traits from a very diverse archetype.

What about the active scholar/philosopher type? I really like the Akashic from AU for that.

I agree that sailor/pirate doesn't make terrible much sense as an archetype I prefer explorer/vagabond in combination with swashbuckler and brigand.

 

[S'mon]

Just a thought--I wonder how Joseph Campbell would have voted on this poll

Probably for a single Hero class.

AFAIK the Trickster (Rogue) archetype isn't much used for Heroes' Journey type myths, but more for lighter fables & parables, although you could make a case for Ulysses. Certainly spellcasters figure as antagonists, foils and patrons, NOT as protagonists, so no PC spellcaster classes in a Campbellian game.

The idea of the spellcaster protagonist seems unique to modern fantasy (19th century onwards), starting I guess with treatments of Merlin as protagonist rather than adviser. I agree with Joshua that looked at objectively the Cleric class is a strange, incongrous D&Dism, if EGG hadn't been a Catholic I think the course of RPG history would have been quite different!

 

[Desdichado]

By the same token, I personally believe Campbellian myth interpretation is over-rated, though.

 

[S'mon]

By the same token, I personally believe Campbellian myth interpretation is over-rated, though.

When I finally bought 'Hero With A Thousand Faces" I was surprised to find myself seriously underwhelmed. OTOH _interpreting_ Campbell has led to some IMO great fantasy, like Moorcock's Eternal Champion series of series.

 

[Desdichado]

That's a good point.

 

[Estlor]

Here's a question:

In the case where you have a generalized class that can be used to make two different achetypical characters (for example, using the Fighter to make both an "Unfettered" and a "Warmain"), is it totally acceptable to have a class called Fighter that has a unified BAB and save progression, but has two or more "heroic paths" you can take that alter the class abilities, hit points, class skills, and skill points?

It would make sense then to have, say, the Fighter, Rogue, and Channeler classes. Fighter could have the heroic paths of Warmain, Unfettered, Bezerker, and Forester. Rogue could have the heroic paths of Thief, Bard, Acrobat, and Mariner. Channeler could have the heroic paths of Wizard, Cleric, Druid, and Psion.

Three core classes, twelve heroic paths.

Does that improve things, or does that just serve to create twelve classes?

 

[Desdichado]

Works for me, Estlor. Then again, 12 classes works for me just fine too. I guess I'm more worried about flexibility than about complexity, but it seems like a personal taste issue to me.