What are necromantic effects?

[Janos Audron]

Undead are immune to necromantic effects, but Control Undead and Undead to Death are both necromany *spells*, but what are necromantic effects?

 

[Crothian]

I'm not sure how much this will help, but in the beginning of the MM there are descriptions of all the monster types and it tells you all the immunities each has. So, I imagine if you look under Undead there it will tell you.

 

[Dr. Zoom]

Effects like fear from the Cause Fear, Scare, and Fear spells. Effects that make use of negative energy to harm living creatures (undead are not living creatures and are usually helped by negative energy), such as Ghoul Touch. The individual spell descriptions usually say how they effect undead. You are correct that undead are not immune to all the necromancy spells, just to some of the necromantic effects.

 

[Janos Audron]

Crothian, that was where the confusion started.

Dr. Zoom, then what is the difference between a necromantic spell and a necromantic effect? Undead are immune to *all* necromantic effects, but not to all necromantic spells. Scare and Fear are Mind Affecting spells, which Undead are already immune to. The effect of Negative Energy is mentioned apart from necromantic effects in the MM. Ghoul Touch has a fortitude save and doesn't affect constructs (hell, it can't even target an Undead), so they are immune, and that also has a seperate entry in the MM.

Sorry, but these answers don't satisfy...

 

[trimeulose]

necromantic effects affect life (ie kill you or otherwise disabling effect for a living creature)

since undead are well not alive they cant be targeted.

 

[da chicken]

It seems obvious to me: If a Necromantic effect doesn't state how it affects undead creatures, assume it doesn't affect them at all. A Necromantic effect is any Necromantic spell, spell-like ability, or supernatiral ability.

For example, Undead are immune to magic jar, and a Lich cannot clone himself.

Most Necromanitic effects expicitly state they only affect living creatures (horrid wilting) or explicitly state how they affect undead (undeath to death, control undead). Like in Magic: The Gathering, you should assume that an explicit specific rule always overrides a general rule. Just be sure the rule is explicit.

 

[Dr. Zoom]

That's what I attempted to say above, but you put it better than I did.

 

[LordAO]

Actually Liches can clone themselves, in the Monsters of Faerun it talks about Baelnorns (Elven Liches) using the clone spell since they don't have phylacteries.

 

[HellHound]

I was having these EXACT issues two nights ago when working on Necromancer's Legacy.

Undead, according to that entry in the MM, can't benefit from Astral Projection ... Heck, depending on how you read it, they could be immune to the "Disrupt Undead" cantrip - since it's a necromancy - and that would make that spell 100% useless instead of mostly useless.

 

[Umbran]

Actually Liches can clone themselves, in the Monsters of Faerun it talks about Baelnorns (Elven Liches) using the clone spell since they don't have phylacteries.

Note that Monsters of Faerun is not a core rulebook.

Baelnorns are not just "elven liches". Elves can become normal liches. Baelnorns are a very specific sort of non-evil undead that is very similar to a lich. However, the lack of a phylactery is a dead giveaway - the baelnorn is an exception, and should not be used to extrapolate to other undead.