What are the intangibles that make D&D fun?

[Dragonblade]

So what is the essence of what makes D&D fun?

I have played 3e, 3.5e/Pathfinder, and 4e and all the games have their own pros and cons from a design standpoint. But ever since going to 3e and beyond, my games have felt like they were missing something. Some intangible quality that I can't quite wrap my brain around that 1e and 2e seemed to possess that the modern incarnations of D&D seem to lack.

I think back to some of the epic games I played back in my high school 1e/2e days, and I remember the best games were us doing something remarkable and unexpected. For example, in one memorable game, the party was about to be devoured by an ancient dragon (an incident we brought upon ourselves by trying to steal its treasure of our own volition) when one of our party made a last ditch survival effort by throwing our folding boat into the dragon's maw and shouting the command word. The DM ruled the boat expanded and ripped apart the dragon's throat killing it instantly. All of the players stood up and jumped around high fiving each other.

This ability to pull off some insane stunt at the last minute doesn't seem possible in Pathfinder/4e. Everything is so balanced or restricted that crazy stunts like this won't work anymore. And I think thats a bit of a shame.

Now, I'm willing to admit that nostalgia is a tinting my glasses rosy. As often as we had fun memorable moments gaming with the 1e or 2e rules, we also had campaigns break down over rules arguments with the DM, or because the players found some broken spell combo that had to be house ruled to prevent future abuse. So while 1e/2e offered more dramatic highs and lows over the course of our play, 3e/4e seems to offer a more steady play experience. I like not having the lows, but the problem is that I miss the highs.

So my question to you, EN Worlders, is what are those intangibles that made those crazy game moments possible and how can we bring those elements back into D&D, whether you are playing Pathfinder or 4e?

For example, digging through my memories of old games, one of the things that stands out is the element of surprise. Particularly the players being able to surprise the DM with some crazy tactic, spell, or item that they pull out of their rear to save the day. How could you bring this back? Perhaps as long as the players stick to the character builder for 4e games, or only Paizo products for Pathfinder, allow the players to make their characters in secret and not tell the DM what the party is playing in terms of mechanical bonuses and so on. Obviously the DM needs to know from an RP perspective.

Another thing I thought of is that old school 1e/2e games tended to have more puzzles, traps, and other situations that required the players to think or talk their way through them and not simply make a Diplomacy or a Search roll to resolve. Challenge the players as opposed to the characters. A thread topic I remember seeing on EN World a couple of years ago.

Anything else? Has anyone else had the same experience as me? How did you bring the magic of old school gaming back while playing with a modern ruleset? What are those intangible qualities that made your most memorable sessions so memorable and fun?

 

[Diamond Cross]

The strategy of it. Overcoming the bad guy. Taking their loot. Saving people's lives, saving the world, being heroes.

That is always the core of any D&D game regardless of the edition.

And being the biggest baddest tough guy (bbtg) there ever has been in any rpg.

 

[ggroy]

Another thing I thought of is that old school 1e/2e games tended to have more puzzles, traps, and other situations that required the players to think or talk their way through them and not simply make a Diplomacy or a Search roll to resolve. Challenge the players as opposed to the characters. A thread topic I remember seeing on EN World a couple of years ago.

For many 1E AD&D games back in the day, we pretty much roleplayed our way through stuff, which in later WotC D&D editions would have been done by skill checks. One kludge we sometimes used for skill checks in 1E AD&D, was to roll less than or equal to a particular player ability stat for a success. Most of the time it was easier to roleplay and use some DM fiat to deal with most non-combat situations, instead of always resorting to dice rolls.

 

[Dragonblade]

The strategy of it. Overcoming the bad guy. Taking their loot. Saving people's lives, saving the world, being heroes.

That is always the core of any D&D game regardless of the edition.

And being the biggest baddest tough guy (bbtg) there ever has been in any rpg.

Right. But think back some of your most memorable sessions. A session where all the players and even the DM were thinking, "Wow! that was awesome!"

Now what made the moment awesome? What confluence of variables or other factors contributed to the awesomeness? How can that be distilled down into DMing advice for someone running a Pathfinder/4e game so that they can replicate that awesomeness in their game? Or get as close as possible once we account for the fact that some awesome moments might be unique to the circumstances, and the PCs and DM involved at the time.

 

[JohnBiles]

The exact same things that made D&D awesome for me in the past is happening in my current games--clever planning, moments of brilliant improvisation, saving the helpless, and visiting weird and interesting places.

(One of the best moments of our current game was the party diving down a 300 foot pit all clinging to a warboar with a nosering of featherfalling)

Another of our greatest moments was the party using their push powers to shuttlecock a foe around the field and finally dump him off a cliff to his death.

But then to me, 4E feels like a car which has just been tuned up, not a straitjacket like some people think.

 

[Henry]

The people at the table. Having a good group of people whose company you enjoy whom you click with. That makes any D&D game a good one to me.

 

[Doug McCrae]

For me, it was probably the unknown, but you can never go back. I know too much now.

That's why I like the GM to make up all the opposition. This is particularly true in a horror game. Imo Cthulhu doesn't work if you use the Cthulhu Mythos, it's too well known. It's actually a really nice feature of superhero, one expects all the bad guys to be handcrafted by the GM.

 

[Doug McCrae]

The DM ruled the boat expanded and ripped apart the dragon's throat killing it instantly. All of the players stood up and jumped around high fiving each other.

This would be quite possible in 4e if the GM ignores the recommended values for stunts on page 42. No limits on damage, instant death is possible.

Obviously this could lead to problems. The players shouldn't keep repeating an insta-kill stunt. They are supposed to add variety to the game, not diminish it. And can enemies achieve these 'out of the park' results against the PCs?

 

[Joker]

Spending time with my friends, having a drink and joking around.

Occasionally enjoying a moment of genius when collectively surmounting an obstacle.

 

[PaulofCthulhu]

The sense of adventure, exploring the unknown, the magical possibilties and the mysteries of the dark.

This...