What are the intangibles that make D&D fun?

[Umbran]

So what is the essence of what makes D&D fun?

So my question to you, EN Worlders, is what are those intangibles that made those crazy game moments possible and how can we bring those elements back into D&D, whether you are playing Pathfinder or 4e?

Anything else? Has anyone else had the same experience as me? How did you bring the magic of old school gaming back while playing with a modern ruleset? What are those intangible qualities that made your most memorable sessions so memorable and fun?

Seems to me that your title question, and all these questions, are not all asking the same thing.

I don't think the intangibles, the essence that makes D&D fun, sits in a particular "school". I don't even think it sits in a particular game - not even in D&D itself!

The things that make the game fun are sitting around the table with me when we play. The really good bits come from the other players, not from the rules.

 

[OnlineDM]

I'm guessing that part of what made D&D more fun back in high school than it is today (for those of us who are long past high school, anyway) is who we were back then, and who we were with. Those of us on the ENWorld forums are gamers, so we spent lots of time in our younger days playing D&D and other RPGs. We remember those times fondly.

I think most of the fond memories, though, are tied to the time of our lives when we were playing those games. Several others on this thread have touched on this - the wonder of the unknown, the quality of the friendships around the table. Those things change as we grow older, and we might not always find the same fun in the same way after those changes.

Still, if we're gamers at heart and we seek out good friends throughout our lives, we'll always be able to capture some fun and magic around the RPG table. It will never be the same as it was "back then," but I'm guessing that the difference is more in ourselves than in the rules of the games.

My guess is that if we were really into playing sports, we might be lamenting the fact that playing basketball today isn't as much fun as it was back in high school. The rules of basketball haven't changed - we have. Yes, the rules of some RPGs have changed, but I think that the difference in feeling is less about the rules than it is about ourselves. And that's okay!

 

[The Shaman]

And being the biggest baddest tough guy (bbtg) there ever has been in any rpg.

 

[Dice4Hire]

I think a lot of the early D&D fun was youth, to be honest, but some of it was a looser ruleset.

But one feature of 1E was the sheer randomness of things, like potion miscibility (I love that table) as it was clear what would happen if you drank two potions, but the rules were not afraid of having very powerful effects hapen (permenant invisibility, anyone?) That was fun. Or artifacts that made you a quarter inch taller or shorter every time you used a major power? Not gonna see that again. WAnd of Wonder? Deck of Many things taking you up multiple levels in a single draw? Awesone stuff.

I think 4E has done a great job of bringing the world to life, with reasons for things as they are and lots of adventure opportunities, but making the ruleset cooller ishte job of the DM and players. Table on page 42, BABY!!!!

I need to use table 42 a lot more, myself. On both sides of the screen.

 

[FireLance]

I think that two of the key intangibes to creating memorable moments in D&D (in any edition) are the creativity of the players combined with a DM that is willing to let the players' creative ideas be not just effective, but more effective than any "normal" action they could take.

That said, I think the rules can influence the opportunity and scope of player creativity to a certain extent. I personally feel that the more descriptive an effect is, the more potential it has for unexpected synergy and the more conducive it is to the creation of memorable moments. For example, an enlarge spell that simply gives a bonus to Strength or to damage rolls has some scope for synergy, but if the spell description also adds that it increases the target's size and weignt, it can be used more creatively: making an enemy too large to pursue the party down a narrow passageway (or slowing it down by forcing it to squeeze) or increasing the enemy's weight so that the bridge it is standing on collapses.

Hence, if you want to encourage memorable moments of player creativity in your game, ask your players to describe how their abilities and the abilities of their magic items work (or use the standard descriptions in the books, if there are any), make sure your players use those descriptions consistently, and then give those descriptions equal weight to the purely mechanical effects when the players try to use them in an unexpected context.

 

[pemerton]

This would be quite possible in 4e if the GM ignores the recommended values for stunts on page 42. No limits on damage, instant death is possible.

Obviously this could lead to problems. The players shouldn't keep repeating an insta-kill stunt. They are supposed to add variety to the game, not diminish it. And can enemies achieve these 'out of the park' results against the PCs?

A good post.

I'd add: in 4e it can also be done using the skill challenge rules, provided the GM let's the players take the lead in shaping their response to the challenge, and using early successes to establish the ingame context for subsequent skill attempts. There's no reason, in principle, why a successful skill challenge couldn't even result in the death of a foe.

 

[Umbran]

I think that two of the key intangibes to creating memorable moments in D&D (in any edition) are the creativity of the players combined with a DM that is willing to let the players' creative ideas be not just effective, but more effective than any "normal" action they could take.

Occasionally, but not all the time. Specifically, when the "normal" actions are themselves difficult or unlikely to succeed, when creativity is dramatically appropriate. If the "creative" way of doing things is always more effective, the game's apt to lean toward wackiness, as players are rewarded for "creative" solutions to simple problems. The PCs don't need to be encouraged to find ingenious ways to pay for a simple meal in a tavern, for example.

 

[Bullgrit]

The DM ruled the boat expanded and ripped apart the dragon's throat killing it instantly. . . . Everything is so balanced or restricted that crazy stunts like this won't work anymore.

If the PCs tried this stunt more than once, you must then understand why things got more "balanced and restricted."

When every big monster can be taken out with one throw and a command word, DMs and game designers add balance and restrictions.

As for the main question, I'll repeat PaulofCthulhu: "The sense of adventure, exploring the unknown, the magical possibilties and the mysteries of the dark." Add "battle terrible monsters and find glittering treasure" to complete the answer.

Bullgrit

 

[ExploderWizard]

The things that make the game fun are sitting around the table with me when we play. The really good bits come from the other players, not from the rules.

When it comes to nailing down those elusive intangibles this is it right here.

When thinking back to those great memorable moments think of the persons who were making it happen together rather than the mechanics being used to resolve the action.

Moments of awesome happen when a great group gets together and makes it happen. Many of these awesome moments either don't involve rules at all or are examples of rules being tossed aside in favor of something far more satisfying than a correctly applied rule- a moment that will be remembered forever.

I do think lighter, more open rules help create an atmosphere more conductive to trying wacky ideas but really when you are going to chuck the rules in favor of a more satisfying experience does it really matter what ruleset is being ignored?

 

[Mallus]

I think that two of the key intangibes to creating memorable moments in D&D (in any edition) are the creativity of the players combined with a DM that is willing to let the players' creative ideas be not just effective, but more effective than any "normal" action they could take.

That about sums it up.

Though I'd like to add this: in order for this to work over the course of a campaign, the players need to be self-policing. Once they find a clever trick that produces an extraordinary result, they can't keep trying the same trick over and over, ad infinitum, as if they were playing a computer game and just found an exploitable loophole in the code. The players need to be active partners in maintaining overall game balance/playability.

Having the right social contract in place is really what makes those wild, woolly, creatively-satisfying, and intangibles-rich games possible.