What are the most powerful prestige classes?
- Thread starter Mithril Man
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Cloudgatherer
First Post
Archer said:
I actually find it really weak. Spellfire doesn't build upon an existing class like most PrC classes do. Even with the extra levels a spellfire channeler can store, it's not really enough. Once he's out, he has to rely on his existing class abilities, which are not improved by the PrC.
reapersaurus
Explorer
Yes, the Mighty Contender disrupted the game I played him in.Crothian said:
Maybe it was the group, but the sheer amounts of damage due to high STR was too much for them to stomach.
It doesn't seem bad to anyone else?
Shard O'Glase
First Post
As for fatespinner and elemental savant. Well fatespinner just sucks IMO. I don't care if I can re-roll 100 times if I lose 4 spell levels on a wizard it just aint wort it.
Elemental savant is fairly good, but overpowered I doubt it. The elemental power could of been close to gained if he had stayed wizard and with the bonus feats made sure he had spell focus, and spell power. The elemental resistance is nice but really not that big, the elemental perfection is the only thing that might be too much. The move and power and type of an elemental, for one caster level, that's nice. I probably wouldn't do it, since at that level I probably duplicated most of the cool stuff like immune to crits with items anyway. Though an earth elementals ability to move freely throughstone and earth is really cool.
Oh and for arcane trickster, nice but loosing 4 spell levels in the pre-req really hurts, and while the sneak attack is there he does lose out on 40 skill points as a rogue and rouge high level abilities like improved evasion, but he does gain the at range thief crap, and spontaneous sneak attack. All very cool, but if I was minmaxing a rogue/wizard I'd care less about my progressing sneak attack, cap any thief levels at 3 for uncanny dodge.(probably level 2 for evasion, or maybe one and hope for a ring of evasion) and boost all my skills with crafted magic items, and still have access to 9th level spells. Add in epic levels and then sure I like the arcane trickster cause I got 9th level spells now.
Elemental savant is fairly good, but overpowered I doubt it. The elemental power could of been close to gained if he had stayed wizard and with the bonus feats made sure he had spell focus, and spell power. The elemental resistance is nice but really not that big, the elemental perfection is the only thing that might be too much. The move and power and type of an elemental, for one caster level, that's nice. I probably wouldn't do it, since at that level I probably duplicated most of the cool stuff like immune to crits with items anyway. Though an earth elementals ability to move freely throughstone and earth is really cool.
Oh and for arcane trickster, nice but loosing 4 spell levels in the pre-req really hurts, and while the sneak attack is there he does lose out on 40 skill points as a rogue and rouge high level abilities like improved evasion, but he does gain the at range thief crap, and spontaneous sneak attack. All very cool, but if I was minmaxing a rogue/wizard I'd care less about my progressing sneak attack, cap any thief levels at 3 for uncanny dodge.(probably level 2 for evasion, or maybe one and hope for a ring of evasion) and boost all my skills with crafted magic items, and still have access to 9th level spells. Add in epic levels and then sure I like the arcane trickster cause I got 9th level spells now.
Thanee
First Post
More on Arcane Trickster...
Very true
, but still, the class only looks uber, if you compare the arcane trickster levels to the wizard levels one by one, since you do not lose much (well, bonus feats and familiar bonuses), but gain a lot (reflex save, skills, sneak attack, special abilities).
If you take into consideration, that you need 4 levels of Rogue and 5 levels of Wizard to get there, and you have to take some rogue skills you do not really want usually (escape artist and decipher script), especially when you multiclass and run low on skill points (from the rogue's perspective), the class can hardly be seen as being uber!
Yes, it is a very good class and it combines the abilities from rogue and wizard to a degree, but it never gets to the full capabilities of either class and that's the cost of multiclassing and you pay it, even if you get a class packed with features like the arcane trickster.
A specialist (i.e. single class wizard) will always get more powerful, but a generalist (i.e. rog4/wiz5/arcane trickster) will have it easier most of the time, due to a broader range of abilities.
Of course, the arcane trickster is much better than a multiclassed rogue/wizard, who does not get any PrC levels, but that's the point of this class, to make this specific multiclass concept viable and not losing out too much of each classes abilities (you still lose something, but gain something else instead, resulting in a nice mix of abilities at roughly 75% power level each compared to a single class character).
Bye
Thanee
hong said:
Very true
, but still, the class only looks uber, if you compare the arcane trickster levels to the wizard levels one by one, since you do not lose much (well, bonus feats and familiar bonuses), but gain a lot (reflex save, skills, sneak attack, special abilities).If you take into consideration, that you need 4 levels of Rogue and 5 levels of Wizard to get there, and you have to take some rogue skills you do not really want usually (escape artist and decipher script), especially when you multiclass and run low on skill points (from the rogue's perspective), the class can hardly be seen as being uber!
Yes, it is a very good class and it combines the abilities from rogue and wizard to a degree, but it never gets to the full capabilities of either class and that's the cost of multiclassing and you pay it, even if you get a class packed with features like the arcane trickster.
A specialist (i.e. single class wizard) will always get more powerful, but a generalist (i.e. rog4/wiz5/arcane trickster) will have it easier most of the time, due to a broader range of abilities.
Of course, the arcane trickster is much better than a multiclassed rogue/wizard, who does not get any PrC levels, but that's the point of this class, to make this specific multiclass concept viable and not losing out too much of each classes abilities (you still lose something, but gain something else instead, resulting in a nice mix of abilities at roughly 75% power level each compared to a single class character).
Bye
Thanee
Last edited:
Actual in game uses for Mettle?
(Not that this hasn't been beaten into the ground, and note, I'm not saying here that it's used more frequently than evasion.)
All "inflict wounds spells"
Horrid Wilting (x4) cast in the same round, the Paladin/Templar was the only one laughing.
Finger of Death
Disintegrate
Weird
Phantasmal Killer
Unholy Blight
Slay Living
Destruction
Poison
The relevance here is not only in the volume of the benefit, but the value as well. Eliminating all the damage on a damage spell (Ref) is nice. Eliminating the entire effect on Stunning spells (Will) and killing spells (Fort) is huge.
(Not that this hasn't been beaten into the ground, and note, I'm not saying here that it's used more frequently than evasion.)
All "inflict wounds spells"
Horrid Wilting (x4) cast in the same round, the Paladin/Templar was the only one laughing.
Finger of Death
Disintegrate
Weird
Phantasmal Killer
Unholy Blight
Slay Living
Destruction
Poison
The relevance here is not only in the volume of the benefit, but the value as well. Eliminating all the damage on a damage spell (Ref) is nice. Eliminating the entire effect on Stunning spells (Will) and killing spells (Fort) is huge.
ashockney said:
To be honest, the only ones in your list I see as being significant are horrid wilting and unholy blight. Spells like FoD, destruction, disintegrate, slay living et al are terrifying because you die on a failed save; the damage on a successful save is trivial by comparison. I agree, the templar is overpowered, but it isn't because of Mettle.
(Now, an _Improved Mettle_ along the lines of Improved Evasion would be awesome. Instant immunity to 99% of death magic! Pity no-one's thought of it up to now....)
ruleslawyer
Registered User
Other than the Windrider (which the Windrider smack over on the smackdown topic has convinced me is the uber-PrC), I agree with former posters who said that Singh Rager (OA) is the most ridiculous PrC.
Let's see:
-Lawful alignment (meaning that paladins, samurai, and iaijutsu masters all can take this PrC)
-Feat prereqs: One less-useful (Iron Will), one uber-feat (ki shout)
-d12 Hit Dice(!)
-Good BAB
-Good Fort AND Will saves
-Rage: This is the biggie. You get it MUCH faster than the barbarian, and you get greater rage and "no longer winded" in a mere 10 levels! Plus, you can stack this rage on top of the mighty abilities that samurai and IM (and, if you mix and match campaigns, paladin) give you.
-All your class abilities are extraordinary abilities. These include fear and haste-type abilities (!)
-You get the uber-smack abilities of free ki shout (greater ki shout, actually) + full attack and, even worse, charge + full attack (which, when combined with rhino hide, greater rage, and iaijutsu focus, is just yucky)
Let's see:
-Lawful alignment (meaning that paladins, samurai, and iaijutsu masters all can take this PrC)
-Feat prereqs: One less-useful (Iron Will), one uber-feat (ki shout)
-d12 Hit Dice(!)
-Good BAB
-Good Fort AND Will saves
-Rage: This is the biggie. You get it MUCH faster than the barbarian, and you get greater rage and "no longer winded" in a mere 10 levels! Plus, you can stack this rage on top of the mighty abilities that samurai and IM (and, if you mix and match campaigns, paladin) give you.
-All your class abilities are extraordinary abilities. These include fear and haste-type abilities (!)
-You get the uber-smack abilities of free ki shout (greater ki shout, actually) + full attack and, even worse, charge + full attack (which, when combined with rhino hide, greater rage, and iaijutsu focus, is just yucky)
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