D&D 5E What are the "True Issues" with 5e?

[Hussar]

It sounds like you're happy to compromise your preferences any time they conflict with the players. I just don't see that as the unalloyed good you seem to.

Hrm. My choices:

Stick to my guns and watch the campaign implode because the players hate it.

Lose out on a minor element while still keeping 90% of the stuff I do want to do and have a successful campaign with happy players.

I get the feeling people really don’t know what compromise means.

 

[Maxperson]

What the difference between having sub-systems in the game or having 3pp systems that do the same thing?

The vast majority of the players would have access to them since they don't go online and buy 3pp.

 

[Hussar]

The vast majority of the players would have access to them since they don't go online and buy 3pp.

This I agree with.

Again totally banging the drum that one of the true issues of 5e is the lack of confidence in 3pp.

 

[Minigiant]

Oh please. That is so far from the truism you make it out to be.

But that’s not true.

Dms guild has dozens of examples that are not tied to setting.

Step away from kickstarter maybe?

Those are the bigger companies.
The bigger publishers are more likely to be accepted by DMs.
DMs control which content is used.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

What the difference between having sub-systems in the game or having 3pp systems that do the same thing?

I mean, we've been over this before, so you know the answer: Player buy-in.

That's IT.

Actually, no, there IS one more thing: The "real" game would be made better for it, and becomes more deserving of the faith that many players already have in it. (See above).

 

[Micah Sweet]

Those are the bigger companies.
The bigger publishers are more likely to be accepted by DMs.
DMs control which content is used.

Depends on the group. As a DM, I've always been friendly toward 3pp, and more so as I've moved away from WotC. We have another DM in our group, and he consults with me regularly on what 3pp to use for our games.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Hrm. My choices:

Stick to my guns and watch the campaign implode because the players hate it.

Lose out on a minor element while still keeping 90% of the stuff I do want to do and have a successful campaign with happy players.

I get the feeling people really don’t know what compromise means.

I guess for me, in your example I would find it completely ridiculous to play in, let alone run a ship-bound campaign without ship combat, particularly due to the reason you stated that your players refuse to engage with any aspect of the campaign that "doesn't fit their character concept". Way too much PC centricity for me to enjoy running. If that doesn't bother you though, enjoy!

 

[Minigiant]

Depends on the group. As a DM, I've always been friendly toward 3pp, and more so as I've moved away from WotC. We have another DM in our group, and he consults with me regularly on what 3pp to use for our games.

But as @Maxperson said, most fans aren't online looking for 3PP.

And the ones who do go for the big publishers who put money into marketing.

For example, as a DM I run a particular style of game. But as a player, I struggle to find a Minigiant style game.

Because WOTC doesn't create new D&D style settings nor create subsystems. And most big 3PP focus on other styles. And the publishers who do have lore and mechanics that are of my style are not popular enough to garner a following.

So I end up converting my newish players to DMing and hope they copy me.

 

[Micah Sweet]

But as @Maxperson said, most fans aren't online looking for 3PP.

And the ones who do go for the big publishers who put money into marketing.

For example, as a DM I run a particular style of game. But as a player, I struggle to find a Minigiant style game.

Because WOTC doesn't create new D&D style settings nor create subsystems. And most big 3PP focus on other styles. And the publishers who do have lore and mechanics that are of my style are not popular enough to garner a following.

So I end up converting my newish players to DMing and hope they copy me.

I am fortunate to have never had this problem. I troll drivethru and the Guild all the time looking for cool 3pp and incorporating it into my house rule document (shamelessly called the Micahnomicon). I don't get to use all of it, but by this point I've put enough work into it that my players refer to it for additional rules and options for our games, even when one of them DMs.

 

[Maxperson]

This I agree with.

Again totally banging the drum that one of the true issues of 5e is the lack of confidence in 3pp.

Not just lack of confidence in 3pp. My point was that the vast majority of players probably don't even go online to look and just play with their friends with the official books. They won't even know about the 3pp, but would see the optional systems in their purchased WotC books.