D&D 5E What are the "True Issues" with 5e?

[James Gasik]

Because they're out if range?

Ha! I'll tell you what happened in my 2e Spelljammer game. The Dwarf Fighter wanted to attack people in melee.

"You'll have to wait until your ship can get alongside to their ship so you can board. Why not man the catapult?"

"Catapult! Yes, that's it! I get on the catapult and launch myself at the other ship!"

Should I have made him take the hull point damage (1 hull point = 10 hp) for splattering against the side of the enemy ship? Probably. But he was having so much fun that I gave him some token damage and sat back and watched the look of pure joy on the player's face as he massacred pirates while everyone else was screwing around with the ship.

 

[Minigiant]

Tedious, maybe. But not without purpose. Keeping track of ammo (or other expendable resource) always has a purpose… just not one everyone respects.

The problem is that the DMG and PHB does not describe ways of making tracking minor resources fun.

Neither has any edition that does it.

SO only people who enjoy it already keep it. Same as slow HP Regen.

 

[Baron Opal II]

You would need better mass combat rules than D&D has ever put out, that's for sure.

I find Chainmail works really well. It, like ODD, could stand a rewrite, but I've run a handful of mass combats in D&D that were executed satisfactorily.

If naval battles happened to become very important in my game, I would try to find a copy of Wooden Ships & Iron Men and look to adapt that as appropriate. (The first wargame I played, it was at my first convention and the place where I bought the Holmes box D&D.)

 

[Micah Sweet]

The problem is that the DMG and PHB does not describe ways of making tracking minor resources fun.

Neither has any edition that does it.

SO only people who enjoy it already keep it. Same as slow HP Regen.

Yup. And that's fine. You can't make people enjoy those things, but they're part of the game. Perhaps it just means the game isn't for everybody. There's no requirement for it to be so.

 

[Minigiant]

Yup. And that's fine. You can't make people enjoy those things, but they're part of the game. Perhaps it just means the game isn't for everybody. There's no requirement for it to be so.

WOTC wants D&D to be for everybody.

A fantasy game about deep resource management that isn't designed to make resource management fun likely fails and doesn't become or stay the top RPG.

This is why resource management in D&D slowly becomes less and less important as the years pass by.

 

[Micah Sweet]

WOTC wants D&D to be for everybody.

A fantasy game about deep resource management that isn't designed to make resource management fun likely fails and doesn't become or stay the top RPG.

This is why resource management in D&D slowly becomes less and less important as the years pass by.

Oh no! D&D might not be the top RPG, but instead be designed for a particular crowd like every other RPG? Horrors! How will we cope?

 

[Minigiant]

Oh no! D&D might not be the top RPG, but instead be designed for a particular crowd like every other RPG? Horrors! How will we cope?

It's fine for you to say that.

My point is D&D as a niche resource management game likely dies or has dreadfully low printing.

The harsh truth is that the RPG industry needs at least one heavily market "for everyone" RPG to attract fans which transition to other RPGs. Many industries work that way.

Someone's gotta do it.

 

[Micah Sweet]

It's fine for you to say that.

My point is D&D as a niche resource management game likely dies or has dreadfully low printing.

The harsh truth is that the RPG industry needs at least one heavily market "for everyone" RPG to attract fans which transition to other RPGs. Many industries work that way.

Someone's gotta do it.

Eh. WotC has gone way too far in that direction for my tastes. Sacrificing creativity and focus for broad appeal.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

It's fine for you to say that.

My point is D&D as a niche resource management game likely dies or has dreadfully low printing.

The harsh truth is that the RPG industry needs at least one heavily market "for everyone" RPG to attract fans which transition to other RPGs. Many industries work that way.

Someone's gotta do it.

I agree with most of this post except for one point:

You can actually have both. There is no reason why good, simple, and fun minigame subsystems for equipment resource tracking, exploration hazards, things to buy with gold, ship-to-ship combat, mass combat, and others that I am currently not thinking about, would make the game LESS popular. Maybe if they were all REQUIRED to play D&D, but as opt-in optional subsystems? No, they would only be good for the game as a whole. People don't HAVE to use them.

The problem now is that people who DO want to use them have to do a lot of homebrewing or turn to 3pp to get systems that are any good.

All IMHO of course!

 

[Minigiant]

I agree with most of this post except for one point:

You can actually have both. There is no reason why good, simple, and fun minigame subsystems for equipment resource tracking, exploration hazards, things to buy with gold, ship-to-ship combat, mass combat, and others that I am currently not thinking about, would make the game LESS popular. Maybe if they were all REQUIRED to play D&D, but as opt-in optional subsystems? No, they would only be good for the game as a whole. People don't HAVE to use them.

The problem now is that people who DO want to use them have to do a lot of homebrewing or turn to 3pp to get systems that are any good.

All IMHO of course!

I agree with you and that's all I am saying.

IMHO 5e should have been designed with optional official mingames and subsystems because 3PP are not incentized to be simple setting generic ones. 3PPs are incentivized to make ones tailored to their personal settings or complex ones to fill books.

"I'm running a lower magic game so magic items won't be assumed. But the optional Stronghold system and Influence system will be used. I printed out copies of them from the DMG."