D&D 5E What are the "True Issues" with 5e?

[Neonchameleon]

Dunno - but it's the most common way they're depicted in fantasy art, movies, etc. (when Pippin says his famous "It comes in pints?" line they're drinking out of wooden steins, for example).

That said, I suppose there's a semantic difference between a mug and a stein; I use the terms interchangably for these purposes.

Are you sure about that? I'd have said metal or ceramic (ceramic for Pippin, possibly metal for Merry) and that it was a tankard. That said the biggest difference between a tankard and a stein is that you normally find tankards in England and steins in Germany. (And the biggest difference between a mug than either is that I don't think mugs can have hinged lids - but mugs are more normally used for hot drinks.)

 

[Vaalingrade]

I've seen the kind though: looks like a tiny barrel with a handle.

 

[Lanefan]

Are you sure about that? I'd have said metal or ceramic (ceramic for Pippin, possibly metal for Merry) and that it was a tankard.

I stand corrected, and am blaming faulty memory.

That said the biggest difference between a tankard and a stein is that you normally find tankards in England and steins in Germany. (And the biggest difference between a mug than either is that I don't think mugs can have hinged lids - but mugs are more normally used for hot drinks.)

Oddly enough, here today we usually refer to the glass container with a handle they serve beer in at the pub as a "beer mug".

But yeah, there's many types of beer containers. The more important question is whether they're full or not.

 

[billd91]

Yes...but the physics involved don't matter to the story or the movie. So determining how many cubic feet of dirt you can move in so many hours completely fails to understand what purpose the shovel serves in the movie. It's a prop the actor can manipulate to get a shot of a sweaty Tom Cruise or Tom Hardy, or some other Tom, it's not to determine how long it takes to dig a tunnel. Like how long it takes to travel somewhere in most movies. Everyone travels at the speed of plot. Indiana Jones and the red line travel montage. How long does it take? There is a real-world mathematically correct answer...that is also completely irrelevant to anything in the movie. You can insist that the answer matters and should be known, but you'd be taking the wrong end of things. It's the drama and tension that matters, not the miles per hour.

Well, the exact rate doesn’t matter, but how often do you see someone digging something up without shovels or pickaxes? I’d submit the actual speed doesn’t matter as much as the presence of the proper digging tool makes the task possible or at least reasonable effort rather than impossible/totally unreasonable. THAT’S why I might have a character with a shovel, not because I care about the subtleties of digging in sandy soil vs loam vs clay.

 

[nevin]

It used to be a heck of a lot more comprehensive than it is now.

Seriously, wanting more of something is NOT the same as wanting everything. Why do so many counter arguments assume this?

100% this. I don't want detailed rules for every possible piece of equipment. Truthfully if D&D had them, I wound probably switch to a different system. I, and the groups I play with are here for heroic action, and over the top Melodrama, not micromanaging mundane details like how much earth someone can dig in an hour. We are all busy adults now, and would rather spend our limited game time fighting dragons and avenging dead lovers instead of pouring over the books to calculate digging rates.

It actually gives me bad flashbacks to 3e. The problem with including detailed rules for everything, is that players expect you to use them, particularly in a system like 3e where character build options often interact with those rules. When I have a character who wants to climb a wall I just want to say, "It looks rather difficult, it is a DC 15 athletics to climb it", instead of having to open the books and have to cross reference several charts of material type, how rough it is, and the weather. That sort of detailed nitpicking just kills all suspense and momentum, and can really kill immersion in the game. When I am DMing the fewer times I need to stop and reference the books the better.

Having detailed rules for everything also requires a lot more prep work for running a sessions. instead of just making up the difficulty on the spot (based on the circumstances), a DM needs to plan ahead, and look up and cross reference different charts while planning the session. Instead of just deciding that the difficulty of breaking down a door is a DC 15, the DM needs the look up a head of time what material and thickness the door needs to be to have a DC 15 to break down.

I think a lot of people have never seen a game brought to a mind numbing crawl by a few rules Lawyers demanding the rules be followed because, well they are the rules. They think the rules help new DM's but they can just as easily take control away and ruin the game far faster than the DM who has no guidance.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Isn't the point of the shovel as camping gear burying all the feces your character never produces and putting out the campfire you never have to light?

 

[Oofta]

I think a lot of people have never seen a game brought to a mind numbing crawl by a few rules Lawyers demanding the rules be followed because, well they are the rules. They think the rules help new DM's but they can just as easily take control away and ruin the game far faster than the DM who has no guidance.

One thing I disliked about 3.x was when someone would say "There's a rule for that, give me a minute while I figure out what book it came from."

 

[nevin]

Well if you know how to camp in the wilderness yes. If you camp in protected wilderness it's the shovel you fill your bags with so you can hike it back out and if your from the city and have never been camping it's that tool you stir the ashes with wondering why you brought something that heavy along.

 

[codo]

One thing I disliked about 3.x was when someone would say "There's a rule for that, give me a minute while I figure out what book it came from."

Not to mention that DMs felt it was necessary to use the rules because they had a player that took the "Expert Shoveler" feat, and not using the rules would completely invalidate the players build choices.

 

[nevin]

well in 3rd they were supposed to get DM permission before taking a feat as all supplemental rules were optional. But none the players ever seemed to see that rule.