D&D 5E What are there so few 4th level cleric spells?

[LordEntrails]

The reason there are so few 4th level cleric spells is to punish players who chose to play clerics. One must punish such players so they never make such a sub-optimal choice again.

 

[abirdcall]

I think there should be fewer and fewer spells each level. Weird that 5tg has more.

Classes that get all spells should have a smaller spell list too.

I like limiting the scope of Cleric spells and they do a pretty good job but it could be narrower.

Wizards should have a very broad selection but fewer in class powers and clerics on the opposite end of that. Which they do a fairly good job of but could be better.

If I remember right Warlocks have a poor 4th level spell list too relying on their subclass spells.

 

[Fanaelialae]

Here you go.

A couple things to keep in mind:

1. As I said, jinxes are just cantrips. We separated them out because in our MOD they are limited.
2. Bard is the arcane half-caster, like Paladins and Rangers.
3. Paladins and Rangers get cantrips (only) at level 1.
4. Paladins are known spell casters, not prepared casters. Only the full-casters (Cleric, Druid, Wizard) are prepared casters.
5. We don't use Artificers, so they aren't on our list.
6. Concentration has been removed from many spells.
7. "High Magic" (6th+ level spells) are completely unique, there is absolutely NO overlap for full casters, making them very unique.

View attachment 255858

Finally, Wizards have drastically reduced spell lists! Also, some "iconic" spells might have been moved or limited, however, if you look at each list individually, hopefully you'll feel there are still plenty of options for each class and that they are well-represented.

If there is anything that screams out "WHAT THE HECK!?" let me know.

I like what you did with High Magic. I couldn't find the High Magic list for warlocks though. Do warlocks not have access to High Magic? If so, did you replace their Mystic Arcanum with anything?

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I'm curious. What did you give the bard to balance the loss of full casting?

not the person you asked, but you don't need to give anything really.

in Middle Earth 5e we get a spell less ranger with some minor expleration perks, and a spellless bard that is pretty much just as is remove all spells and they are not more or less powerful then fighter rogue and barbarian.

 

[Redwizard007]

not the person you asked, but you don't need to give anything really.

in Middle Earth 5e we get a spell less ranger with some minor expleration perks, and a spellless bard that is pretty much just as is remove all spells and they are not more or less powerful then fighter rogue and barbarian.

Normally, I'd call bards one of the stronger classes. Probably top 3. With that nerf, it sounds like bottom 3. Still better than rogue and monk, but I could see it struggling to keep up with fighter, ranger or barbarian, and crushed by the other casters.

 

[Vaalingrade]

there's probably less 4th level spells because 3rd level is usually the prestige; the place where fireball goes despite being too powerful for that spot. It's the exciting level where you start getting to play with the fun toys.

So everyone designs to be the fun uncle giving out the big gifts for age 5, 10, Sweet Sixteen, 18 and 21 because they're the Important Numbers. So they give their all to those and the boring after-level of 4 kind of gets ignored.

I've found myself doing the same thing with 7th level rituals in my own game.

 

[Ancalagon]

The domain spells should be considered - there are a few really good ones in there

 

[DND_Reborn]

I'm curious. What did you give the bard to balance the loss of full casting?

Well, Bards were already too powerful in our opinions, but we still gave them two things when we made them half-casters:

1) Allowing you to grant inspiration with your bonus action (as normal) or your reaction.

and 2) an additional college feature:

@DND_Reborn , Well, now you've done it! I demand to see your bard class! (perhaps in PM not to derail this thread further?)

Other than the changes noted above, and they now follow half-caster progression, not much else has changed if you want to follow regular 5E. Now, our "MOD" has a LOT of general changes, some of which affect the Bard (as these changes affect each class though).

I like what you did with High Magic. I couldn't find the High Magic list for warlocks though. Do warlocks not have access to High Magic? If so, did you replace their Mystic Arcanum with anything?

In the "full" MOD, Warlocks are a subclass of cleric so use the Cleric Spell List.

In the hacked down MOD, Warlocks were restored to a class, but we felt the inclusion of Eldritch Invocations made them powerful enough that removing Mystic Arcanum was warranted. However, a couple enhancements were added: 1) You gain your first Invocation at 1st level instead of waiting until 2nd, 2) Your Patron spells are automatically known spells for you, you don't have to choose them.

Given that Warlocks are the only short-rest spell recovery (with our revised spell system), they benefit from that change as well.

Now, others might not find these sufficient, but these changes create a balance my group is happy with.

Honestly, I haven't worked on this stuff in a while and we have 3-4 variant versions of the MOD lol! The full MOD was over 150 pages and approaching the point of becoming its own 5E variant (like A5E), and for the moment other projects have taken priority. I debate often if I want to just go all out and make my own game...