Level Up (A5E) What are we doing with fatigue and strife?

[Morrus]

Fatigue and strife are constantly evolving as we playtest them. I wanted to share the current status of them, but with the caveat that they may not stay like this. That said, those who are familiar with our journey and combat rules are welcome to comment on them. Our goals are to make them a more common part of the game, and also to soften them a little from the exhaustion of O5E, which we feel is too debilitating too quickly.

Note that without the context of the journey and combat rules, it will be hard to judge these.

Tracked Conditions​

Various challenges, obstacles, and magics can lead to either fatigue or strife. An effect can give a creature one or more levels of fatigue or strife (detailed in the effect's description).

If a creature suffering from fatigue or strife fails to resist another effect that causes a level of the tracked condition, its current level increases by the amount specified in the effect's description.

A creature suffers the effect of its current level in a tracked condition as well as all lower levels. For example, a creature suffering level 3 fatigue has its speed halved, and makes Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution checks with disadvantage.

An effect that removes a tracked condition reduces its level as specified in the effect's description, with all tracked condition effects ending when a creature's condition level is reduced below 1.

Finishing a long rest at a safe haven reduces a creature's fatigue and strife levels by 1, provided that the creature has also had Supply to get the most from its rest. A creature does not require a haven to recover from the first level of fatigue or strife, but does still require a long rest. Also, being raised from the dead reduces all of a creature’s tracked conditions by 1.

Fatigue​

The ranger finally reached the walled town, and staggered through the gates. The villagers gasped at the sight, for she was clearly starving, covered in dozens of minor wounds, and on the edge of collapse. Friendly hands reached out to offer her food and rest.

Keeping a breakneck pace while journeying, feats of great athleticism, and fell magics that sap away life force can wear down upon the body and cause fatigue. Fatigue represents exhaustion, exposure, hunger, injuries, and other physical factors which gradually wear a creature down. A creature which reaches the 7th level of the fatigue track dies.

Table: Fatigue
Level Effects
1 Cannot sprint
2 Disadvantage on Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution checks
3 Speed halved and unable to maintain a fast travel pace
4 Disadvantage on attack rolls and saving throws using Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution, and unable to maintain a normal travel pace
5 Hit dice halved
6 Speed reduced to 5 ft. and unable to maintain a slow travel pace
7 Doomed

Strife​

The halflings pushed on, the weight of the archlich Azkaroth’s presence weighing on their spirits as they trudged across the desolate landscape towards the dark lord’s lair. Each of them could feel the lich’s will tugging at their minds, and it took every ounce of courage they had to put one foot in front of the other.

Intense study of potent arcana, truly rigorous intellectual challenges, and psychically demanding magics can increase one’s strife. Strife represents corruption, despair, fear, resolve, and other mental factors which gradually undo a creature’s very soul. A creature which reaches the 7th level of the strife track suffers a special, permanent effect, which is either randomly selected or decided by the Narrator. This might involve the creature shutting down completely, or be impacted in such a way that it is forever changed.

Table: Strife
Level Effects
1 Cannot concentrate
2 Disadvantage on Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma checks
3 Can only take a bonus action or action each turn (not both)
4 Disadvantage on attack rolls and saving throws using Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma
5 Suffer the effects of a randomly determined short-term mental stress effect (page @@).
6 Cannot cast spells (but can cast cantrips)
7 Suffer the effects of a randomly determined long-term mental stress effect (page @@).

 

[Fallen star]

Being unable to concentrate is a bigger detriment to casters than being unable to take bonus actions. I suggest swapping 1 and 3 on strife.

 

[Faolyn]

So what does it mean, Hit Dice halved? In terms of being able to spend them to regain hp?

Being unable to concentrate is a bigger detriment to casters than being unable to take bonus actions. I suggest swapping 1 and 3 on strife.

Or perhaps have disad on concentration checks instead of being completely unable.

Although there are a few maneuvers that require concentration. But yes, it's pretty severe.

 

[Steampunkette]

This sincerely looks great, to me!

I think Concentration is a better choice for the Tier 1 of Strife. Concentration effects are nice, and in the right situations can be quite powerful, but bonus actions are far more plentiful, and it's comparative Fatigue is "Cannot Sprint".

I don't feel like "half action economy" is really comparable, there.

 

[GKEnialb]

Yeah, I'd say that either having disadvantage on concentration checks or maybe even automatically failing them when you take damage would be better for level 1 than not being able to concentrate at all. Otherwise, think it all looks really good.

 

[TheHand]

I'm intrigued by this concept! I used to use a kind of similar house-ruled fatigue mechanic back in ye olden days of editions past.

I think my table would prefer something a little less lethal, though, particularly when it came to Fatigue; even if not officially changed I would probably houserule the "Doomed" condition on Fatigue to "Pass Out until your next Long Rest".

I also wonder if Constitution factor in at all with Fatigue (perhaps in how it's applied?)

 

[Stalker0]

My quick and dirty (my commentary next to each piece)

Table: Fatigue
Level Effects
1 Cannot sprint (solid, provides some penalty but for the most part can be forgotten in many circumstances, a nice gateway)

2 Disadvantage on Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution checks (initiative and athletics checks are likely going to be your main penalties here, again clearly a penalty but nothing in "too bad category" yet, this also seems fine)

3 Speed halved and unable to maintain a fast travel pace (the trick with speed is for some classes its essential, and others could be an afterthought. I would go with unable to dash, and maybe some other penalty like it takes all your speed to stand up from prone or something)

4 Disadvantage on attack rolls and saving throws using Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution, and unable to maintain a normal travel pace (so this is the "I am screwed" level of fatigue, aka the level where you should seriously consider if more adventuring right now is the right course. It feels appropriately penalizing, and will have a good amount of penalty to pretty much all characters)

5 Hit dice halved (a bit unclear here. Is it the total number of hitdice is halved, is it the healing from them...heck some people could interpret it as the hit dice of your hitpoints are dropped by half. So some clarity needed there. I think you mean the total number of hit dice.... personally my issue with that is depending on when you get this level it could be a severe drop or it could nothing at all. I would instead recommend apply a penalty on your hit dice healing. Example: -2 to all of your hit dice rolls (minimum 0)

6 Speed reduced to 5 ft. and unable to maintain a slow travel pace
(this is a key philosophical question for how you want level up to be... do I want it gritty or heroic. Right now you have set it to gritty, a lot of characters are going to be nigh useless at this level, and basically will need to be in a wagon while everyone else does the fighting. The opposite of this would be heroic, where you actually keep the penalty smaller....with the knowledge that the real penalty is that a character can take just 1 level of fatigue and drop dead....so the player is putting their life on the line by continued adventuring.

I personally prefer the latter, but I can accept the former....but this level really does define some of the style of your game, so choose wisely. If you want more heroic, maybe something like "enemies get advantage to attack you" or something like that. Again, your playing dangerous....but at least your playing, not laid out in bed.)


Table: Strife
Level Effects
1 Cannot concentrate (compared to fatigue this is a MUCH BIGGER penalty...and extremely targeted at spellcasters. If this prevent manuevers too than maybe, but it feels like your picking on segment of your classes right out of the gate....that seems harsh)

2 Disadvantage on Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma checks (perfectly fine)

3 Can only take a bonus action or action each turn (a strong penalty but a fair one that is going to affect a lot of classes. This is the "oh crap I really have strife" level).

4 Disadvantage on attack rolls and saving throws using Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma (a little weaker than Fatigue's 4th because you have only one "key" save on this one....but considering the pain of level 3 strife I think its fine).

5 Suffer the effects of a randomly determined short-term mental stress effect (page @@)

6 Cannot cast spells (but can cast cantrips) - So again feels very focused on spellcasters, I mean fighters can get strife too right....so they just don't care for the most part? If this was maneuvers as well, ok now most everyone cares, or maybe rest type abilities.

7 Suffer the effects of a randomly determined long-term mental stress effect (page @@).

 

[Horwath]

I like very much the split of exhaustion to fatigue&strife, one representing the body wear and tear on other damaging mind/spirit.

But it still has the same "binary" problem that exhaustion has. it's too much to go from normal skills to disadvantage or from can cast spell to cannot cast spells with one level difference.


In out last campaign we ditched the binary effect of exhaustion and went with slow -1 per level for all attacks/saves/checks, -1 max HP per exhaustion level(min of 1 HP per level/HD), -5 speed per level(min of 5ft speed) and -1 to all your DC's per level.

this should ofc be split in A5E to fatigue, penalty on all STR,DEX and CON mechanics plus speed and HPs
and strife; penalty on ALL INT, WIS and CHA mechanics.


with progressive penalty to speed, there is no need to ban Dash or Sprint actions, they will get worse and worse with reduced base speed.

Same with spells, 6 levels of strife will practically negate all offensive power of spellcaster, -6 to DC and spell attacks/dispel checks.
But it still leaves casters with option to focus on beneficial spells as a fallback.


-1 per level mechanics might feel boring, but it describes slow decay of body/mind more accurately than going from 100% to near incompetent in certain areas with only one level of fatigue added.

Also, with removing disadvantage from fatigue/strife, characters are still rewarded for gaining advantage and avoiding disadvantage at various circumstances.

 

[Morrus]

1 Cannot concentrate (compared to fatigue this is a MUCH BIGGER penalty...and extremely targeted at spellcasters. If this prevent manuevers too than maybe, but it feels like your picking on segment of your classes right out of the gate....that seems harsh)

I think that's a fair comment; I feel like fatigue would be more of a problem for martial characters and strife more of a problem for spellcasters. The question is whether that's a good thing or a bad thing?

 

[tetrasodium]

I think that's a fair comment; I feel like fatigue would be more of a problem for martial characters and strife more of a problem for spellcasters. The question is whether that's a good thing or a bad thing?

How often do monsters & other things impose fatigue/strife? The gut strike & unparalleled under heaven maneuver can impose a level of fatigue on the target/user as can being crit, dropping to 0, & fiery environments. I didn't see mention of it in berserker/fighter/rogue playtest packets with ctrlf. Either way one level of fatigue is cannot sprint while 1 level of strife is cannot cast a significant plurality if not majority of o5e spells. The spells summary packet doesn't mention concentration though & I'm not sure if we've heard anything about changes there, but cannot concentrate is probably on par with cannot use heavy finesse or ranged weapons in how extreme it is unless big changes to concentration are in the pipe.