D&D 5E What are/will be the main beefs of D&D Next relative to other editions?

[Kursk]

I am getting the feeling that the most outraged at the moment are 4e fans who are feeling a little betrayed. For almost everyone else there just doesn't seem to be enough passion to really be upset at 5e. Its more like a bit of a "meh."

This is also what I'm seeing. The only people I know who care are 4.x people who fear losing ongoing "support". No one else I know really cares about "Next".

 

[Mercurius]

If there aren't any such complaints about the 4e->5e transition (and I haven't seen them thus far, certainly at nowhere near the intensity of the last time), then I worry. Unless 5e is so good that it sees a near-universal adoption by the player base (yeah, right...), then a lack of an Edition War is a really bad sign.

I'm not sure I agree with this. I mean, I hear what you're saying and see the logic of it, but don't think it follows that lack of outrage = lack of passion. It might mean lack of passion about 4E. It could also mean, as you say, that 5E is good enough to please a lot of folks, or at least not offend them.

Its also a different cultural context. Whereas 4E "killed 3.5E and took its stuff," leaving it adrift without official support, 5E is coming out in a context that sees Pathfinder thriving, so you're going to have a large segment of players who will look at 5E and, if they don't absolutely love it, be content to remain with Pathfinder. In other words, people won't feel as burned - except for a relatively small group of 4E diehards who won't have the OGL for some entrepreneurial spirit to take the reins like Paizo did with 3.x.

I think the key, though, with 5E is whether it can find some way to interconnect the various editions, as the original intention was. The problem with distinctly different editions is the fracturing of the base into "edition factions." Couple that with the likelihood that the gaming population isn't increasing, and is probably even diminishing, then you have each new edition fighting over a decreasing pool of players with more and more options.

In some ways I'm reminded of the presidential election where there's about 40% of the voting population that will always vote Republican and about 40% that will always vote Democrat; the election is won by whoever gets the most of the remaining 20%. I don't know the numbers, but with regards to D&D players I'd imagine we have a few general groups:

Old Schoolers (playing editions pre-3E) that won't switch no matter what, except perhaps temporarily to try the latest OSR game - maybe 5-10% of the total D&D player base, perhaps less.

OGL/3.x/Pathfinder players - most of whom are happy where they are, and probably make up the largest chunk of D&D players - maybe 40-50%.

4E diehards - This is probably a relatively small group, but may prove to be stronger than previously realized. I imagine, though, that it makes up less than 20% of the D&D populace.

The Unaligned - These are the folks that are happy to try and play the newest version of D&D and/or are actively looking for something new, and/or didn't form an attachment to any specific edition. This, I think, is a solid number - maybe 20-30%.

Again, I have no idea what the actual numbers are. But the point is that 5E should serve two purposes: One, pleasing the Unaligned by making a game that is as fun as possible, that feels both fresh and classic. Two, trying to draw as many of the other three groups as possible, especially the 3.x and 4E players. I would guess that about half of each group would at least be willing to give Next a shot, but it may be that what would win one group over would actual disenfranchise the other, and it may be impossible to attract both (let alone the OSR crowd at the same time). But this seemed to be the original plan and it remains to be seen whether Mearls & Co can pull it off, or even if they're still trying to do so.

If Next is successful, my guess is that it vies with Pathfinder for king of the hill, with the 4E and OSR crowds being a distant 3rd and 4th place. I wouldn't be surprised to see the 4E diehards diminish to 5-10% of the D&D populace, perhaps not even that.

 

[Mercurius]

This is also what I'm seeing. The only people I know who care are 4.x people who fear losing ongoing "support". No one else I know really cares about "Next".

Wait, do you mean to say that "no one else...really cares about Next" in a negative way, as in no one has a strong negative reaction to it, or do you mean in a general way, as in no one is excited about it at all?

From what I gather, there's a fair amount of excitement - which would disagree with you if you mean in a general way - although it is cautious excitement.

 

[Wicht]

Wait, do you mean to say that "no one else...really cares about Next" in a negative way, or in general?

From what I gather, there's a fair amount of excitement - which would disagree with you if you mean in a general way - although it is cautious excitement.

There is undoubtedly a core of people who are excited about 5e (I detest Next as a name; though not enough to get excited about) but as a percentage, they seem to be smaller than in previous edition changes. The majority just can't seem to really get worked up about it one way or the other, though.

I had not thought about the fact that a lack of an edition war with a change might be a bad sign, but I could see that. I really think the number of people highly digruntled by 3e was very minor compared to the number of us who really, really, really liked it. With 4e on the other hand, the number of people highly disgruntled seemed about even with the number who really liked it. Both editions stirred passions positive and negative, though the exact ratio of one to the other spoke, I think, to the games actual strength and longevity in the gaming world. With 5e, the ratio and feelings are markedly different from previous changes, at least from where I sit.

I do think some of what we are seeing speaks to a brand that has been damaged; not beyond repair, but enough so that care should be taken in how the damage is handled.

 

[Mistwell]

There is some massive anger about Next over at the official WOTC boards....if you're looking for passion of that nature.

I see a lot of positive passion overall for Next.

And of course Morrus's tool to measure what people are talking about on the internet in general (in terms of RPGs) found people are talking about Next more than any other version of the game, as of his last public post about that tool. So, that does say something to me.

 

[Wicht]

Well, we are talking about it now, but that doesn't denote passion about the edition necessarily.

And I think we did already say the most passionate against it are those who are big fans of 4e.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

There's another thread about how many people would buy D&D Next. The portion is pretty high.

But I suspect D&DN is getting an unusually poor reception because it's got something to tick everyone off, along with a poor marketing and development job. Anyone remember the Monte Cook columns that angered people? Or the more recent ones? I don't think even 4e preview columns made people that angry, and they certainly angered people.

Now there's at least three living D&D systems (OSR, Pathfinder and 4e), the latter two of which are kind of bloated. (I like 4e, and have enough of everything except maybe adventures for a lifetime.) For customers who are positively inclined toward Next, they have to ask themselves if it's worth giving up on all the OSR, 3.x/PF or 4e stuff they already have.

 

[Jester David]

But the point is that 5E should serve two purposes: One, pleasing the Unaligned by making a game that is as fun as possible, that feels both fresh and classic. Two, trying to draw as many of the other three groups as possible, especially the 3.x and 4E players. I would guess that about half of each group would at least be willing to give Next a shot, but it may be that what would win one group over would actual disenfranchise the other, and it may be impossible to attract both (let alone the OSR crowd at the same time). But this seemed to be the original plan and it remains to be seen whether Mearls & Co can pull it off, or even if they're still trying to do so.

If Next is successful, my guess is that it vies with Pathfinder for king of the hill, with the 4E and OSR crowds being a distant 3rd and 4th place. I wouldn't be surprised to see the 4E diehards diminish to 5-10% of the D&D populace, perhaps not even that.

It should be noted that many people don't buy just a single game to the exclusion of all others. This isn't a video game console situation where there is a $400 buy in for your choice. $40-120 should get you playing an RPG.

There might be many Pathfinder and other gamers who still buy 5e, as a side system or for a break. Something to run between campaigns.

 

[Ahnehnois]

I don't think there will be a big universal set of complaints. I think (concurring with [MENTION=6750728]Kursk[/MENTION] ) that the big revelation will be that people simply don't care that much.

When 4e came out, sure it was despised by many, but at least those people cared. Now, there's other options, and people are more aware that there are other options. I don't see that there's another edition war in the making simply because the people who don't like 5e won't care as much as they did the last time around.

 

[Kursk]

Wait, do you mean to say that "no one else...really cares about Next" in a negative way, as in no one has a strong negative reaction to it, or do you mean in a general way, as in no one is excited about it at all?

I mean out of the ~50 gamers I associate with, the only ones that have expressed any strong emotions about Next are the 4.x players.