What CAN a warblade use with a maneuver?

[Henry]

A question came up recently, and though the Book of 9 swords is somewhat clear, it wasn't crystal clear to me -- so I am asking the sages of ENWorld, who have no doubt plowed through this debris field before, for their help.

The Book of 9 Swords makes it clear that anything that gives you extra attacks doesn't stack with a maneuver (like haste, for instance), and that things that qualify as special attack actions can't be used with the attacks from maneuvers . However, how about feats that give bonuses to attacks? Could power attack be used with martial maneuvers, so that, with Mountain Hammer, you could get your 2d6 damage AND take a 3-point power attack? Or with your Mountain Hammer you could take a 3-point combat expertise? I know you can't sunder with that mountain hammer, but could you cleave?

Thanks, all!

 

[hong]

The consensus is that p.43 of Bo9S is basically restating the standard rules for actions. Most strikes require a standard action, so you can't combine them with anything that requires an attack action (eg Spring Attack) or a full attack (eg haste, TWF) or something else (eg charge). However, things like Cleave still work.

There is also a specific rule that you can't disarm/sunder/grapple when using a strike, but that's separate.

There is one strike that requires a full round action and grants 2 full attack actions (time stands still). For that one, you just use the normal rules for full attack actions, and haste and TWF _do_ work.

Nothing stops you using Power Attack with a strike. Combat Expertise is an interesting one.

 

[Henry]

Aha! Thank you!

 

[blargney the second]

Power Attack and Combat Expertise are both fine, since they simply modify your attack bonus for the round.

 

[hong]

Combat Expertise is interesting because it technically requires an attack or full attack action in melee. Silly Combat Expertise.

 

[blargney the second]

You resolve most strikes as a regular melee attack with all the usual modifiers and the full meal deal "as normal". It's in the (Type) section about strikes on p42-43.
-blarg

 

[Donovan Morningfire]

You resolve most strikes as a regular melee attack with all the usual modifiers and the full meal deal "as normal". It's in the (Type) section about strikes on p42-43.
-blarg

Was gonna chime in that it's okay to use feats such as Combat Expertise and Power Attack in conjunction with manuevers, but blargney 2.0 beat me to it.

Like you said Henry, anything that provides additional attacks can't be used with a manuever that requires a standard action. In terms of damage dice/effects, technicially the would stack.

So if a Warblade with a Belt of 1 Mighty Blow (MIC, 1/day add bonus damage to 1 attack as a swift action; bigger weapon = more dice) used Mountain Hammer (standard action) and a fiery weapon (+1d6), technically all the bonus dice would stack, as would the damage bonus from usinig Power Attack. Which could lead to a Roy-like effect of sending foes sailing across a room. Could lead to some very ugly combinations.

 

[exempt]

Was gonna chime in that it's okay to use feats such as Combat Expertise and Power Attack in conjunction with manuevers, but blargney 2.0 beat me to it.

Hmmmm... maybe I'm slow but I still don't understand if I can use Spring Attack with a strike. Reason I ask is because my Jade Phoenix Mage-to-be is wanting to get Spring Attack (and if not, why do they suggest it in the "Advancement" part of the JPM? I was hoping to iuse Spring Attack and Empowering/Quickening Strike)

 

[hong]

Hmmmm... maybe I'm slow but I still don't understand if I can use Spring Attack with a strike. Reason I ask is because my Jade Phoenix Mage-to-be is wanting to get Spring Attack (and if not, why do they suggest it in the "Advancement" part of the JPM? I was hoping to iuse Spring Attack and Empowering/Quickening Strike)

Spring Attack requires you to make an attack action in the middle of your move. However, strikes do not (usually) involve attack actions. They use standard actions, which happen to involve hitting (attacking) someone.

This is the same reason why Combat Expertise is iffy with strikes. When you use a strike, you are not using the attack or full attack action, as CE requires.

 

[Henry]

So if it's using "attack" you can add it. If it's using "attack action", you can't.

Huh? Confused again, dammit.