D&D (2024) What could One D&D do to push the game more toward story?

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

So you've never played Zero to Hero? And in your 20 years levelling up has never impacted the way characters behave or their place within the game world?

I'm afraid I simply do not believe you here. Levelling up is a textbook example of mechanics pushing story. You might find that the mechanics don't interfere with the gameplay that much because you accept what they are trying to do - but that doesn't make them not mechanics that push a story.

I will clarify that I don’t like other mechanics that “push” the story. By push I mean actively advance the story. Leveling is passive, and, in our games, story dependent. We level when the story dictates, not the other way around.

 

[Neonchameleon]

If that is the stance you want to take, then I will clarify that I don’t like other mechanics that “push” the story. By push I mean actively advance the story. Leveling is passive, and, in our games, story dependent. We level when the story dictates, not the other way around.

I repeat @Aldarc 's challenge. "Do you have examples of "mechanics that push or force story" in other games?"

The fact that levelling is passive only makes it push the story more because the players and characters have less control over it and it forces them more down a predetermined path. And you have to write your settings such that levelling with the inherent vast disparity in power is a part of them.

Now, I'll give you a mechanic that to me is one that encourages story from Apocalypse World (from memory)

When life becomes untenable choose 1 [exclusive so each can only be picked once]:

• Die, permanently
• Come back with -1 Hard
• Come back with +1 Weird
• Come back with a different playbook [class]

(The Apocalypse World stats are Hard, Hot, Sharp, Cool, and Weird and a +1 modifier is significant).

Is this something you dislike? The idea that instead of resurrection magic you can come back changed in one of a number of ways so death isn't consequence-less

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Without more information, my guess is the GM was trying to make the "battle" to get your lands back the central theme of the next stage of the campaign. They probably thought they were throwing you a bone after distracting you with an adventure. The mistake, of course, was not clearing it with you first.

Yeah, I'd have happily dealt with all sorts of threats or whatever. This is one of those things though that is generally understood in story games, don't take away the player's toys! Challenge is always possible, there's no need to crush everyone's dreams, lol. Honestly, it was just old habits IMHO. My sister was running that game and she's a pretty good GM. She's run a bunch of DW for us, but old habits die hard I guess.... lol.

 

[Incenjucar]

What exactly is the gap trying to be filled here?
A story is characters doing stuff and stuff happening to characters. Are characters not doing stuff or having stuff happen to them?

 

[Neonchameleon]

What exactly is the gap trying to be filled here?
A story is characters doing stuff and stuff happening to characters. Are characters not doing stuff or having stuff happen to them?

Slowly and in a pretty teflon manner.

A D&D character in any edition can be brought down to 1hp and recover back to full HP with no ill effect. There are no injuries. And character growth after level 3, unless you multiclass, is normally on rails; you just get higher level.

 

[Incenjucar]

Slowly and in a pretty teflon manner.

A D&D character in any edition can be brought down to 1hp and recover back to full HP with no ill effect. There are no injuries. And character growth after level 3, unless you multiclass, is normally on rails; you just get higher level.

Do you want story to be slower and more stressful and to involve less combat?

I don't understand the "on rails" thing unless you also do not want a class-based game.

Maybe the WoD-style rules would work better?

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Sorry! I just don’t like the idea of mechanics that push the story. I like the story to happen organically in play. The interaction of players and DM, not mechanics (other than how the dice fall)

Given the way you speak of it, and that you've clearly not become familiar with any of these sorts of games (lets say PbtA games, though they are only a subset of story games), my feeling is you're not really understanding what they entail.

That is, 'story' is not particularly an element of a PbtA game, and one of the primary principles of these games is 'Play to See What Happens', which LITERALLY MEANS that story is fully emergent from play. Nothing within the game dictates story, at all. Story will inherently arise, because the process of play inevitably triggers the formation of some sort of story, but nothing is forced at all! In a DW game, for instance, players describe their characters using several mechanisms that are very similar to generic D&D (IE 6 ability scores, a class, a race, an alignment, and 'bonds' which are just descriptions of a couple pre-existing relationships each character has with one or two of the other PCs). DW is a 'low myth' game in a general sense, the GM does do prep, but first she asks the characters questions, and frames an initial scene in response. Then once that is resolved it will often lead to the definition of a steading (IE a base of operations for the PCs). Anyway, basically its remarkably similar to any other RPG aside from the GM is expected to generate action and scenes that directly engage the characters, although world events can certainly go on off-screen without any PC intervention. Honestly, Dungeon World is more like a really really good D&D game than anything else, it just produces that result a LOT more of the time than B/X or whatever does.

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

I repeat @Aldarc 's challenge. "Do you have examples of "mechanics that push or force story" in other games?"

I will give the same answer: no I don’t. I have only played D&D, so how could I?

This is not a discussion to get so worked up over IMO. I know I am right for me, and I am sure you are correct for you.

I never entered this to discuss mechanics, only wanted to voice my opinion that I don’t personally want such mechanics. However, I don’t mind if the game has them and others use them.

A 5e example I can give is inspiration. People describe that as a story pushing mechanic in 5e. We don’t use it in our games, but I don’t mind that it is an option for others.

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

Given the way you speak of it, and that you've clearly not become familiar with any of these sorts of games (lets say PbtA games, though they are only a subset of story games), my feeling is you're not really understanding what they entail.

That is correct and likely true. I only have experience with D&D. My aversion to such mechanics could be completely off base.

I just want the game I have, and the layers and DM, and I don’t need anything more to create the stories I’ve enjoyed for 20 years.

 

[Neonchameleon]

I will give the same answer: no I don’t. I have only played D&D, so how could I?

This is not a discussion to get so worked up over IMO. I know I am right for me, and I am sure you are correct for you.

I never entered this to discuss mechanics, only wanted to voice my opinion that I don’t personally want such mechanics. However, I don’t mind if the game has them and others use them.

The thing here is you are saying

1. You have never played anything other than D&D
2. You are therefore confident that you understand what you don't want despite no experience with other games
3. D&D has, as I've mentioned, some story pushing mechanics (which you, when questioned are fine with)