What did real medieval mines look like?

[cildarith]

Treebore,

We're wandering a little off-topic here, but Azurite is certainly different than Chalcanthite, though both are copper minerals.

Also keep in mind that just because 92 mineral species have been identified from a mine doesn't necessarily mean there was a lot of it. On the other hand, the mine with the greatest variety of mineral species was probably the Tsumeb Mine in Namibia. If you've got a few spare hours you'll probably enjoy paging through the 900+ mineral photos in this link. This Azurite specimen is probably my favorite, though.

To the OP: I share your frustration with the maps presented in Goodman Games DCC#1. If anyone puts together an alternate map that doesn't look like it was ripped right out of Jamis Buck's random dungeon generator, I'd love to see it.

 

[Woas]

Going along with the mixed minerals train of thought: it's always fun to plop a bunch of pyrite down in front of the characters. Serves 'em right for overlooking the Appraise (and/or profession: miner or jewler) skill!

 

[Treebore]

Nice links! They are now bookmarked! That is a awesome azurite formation. I didn't even know Azurrite crystals existed until a couple of months ago, when I found small ones here in AZ.

I don't think anything that could help a DM run a better and more in depth mine adventure is off topic, but it isn't my thread.

 

[Nyeshet]

Here is a cavern map "generator." As best I can tell, it would be more accurate to say it is a listing of 101 pre-generated maps, as the result never changes when the same number is placed in the "generator." However, they are not too bad, considering:

http://www.irony.com/mkcavern.html

There are a few other "generators" such as the above, here:
http://www.irony.com/webtools.html

I don't mind the calender generator, actually, althought it is too limited for my use.


On another note, you realise that in a core game mines will likely look nothing like a medieval mine - or roman mine, right? Stone shape, continual flame, control water, gust of wind, and probably even new variants of 'Detect' spells (detect gold, detect silver, detect mithril, detect ruby / sapphire, detect diamond, etc) would make mining much easier. The detect spells would likely be bumped up a level due to their ability to 'see' through stone, but the fact that they are so overwhelmingly specific would likely draw them back down a level, so balancing them around first level. Continual flame removes the problem of lighting and since the effect produces no heat and cannot combust there is no chance for explosion with it. Another detect spell (or perhaps even 'detect poison') could determine the quality of the air, I think. Granted, a permanent 'Gust of Wind' for ventilation is likely odd, but a variant by another name would likely work (keeps ____ 10 ft cubes well ventillated, or some such). Control Water to remove water from caverns may or may not be economical - a new variant might be needed, I think.

All in all, I expect mining in a core RAW setting to be both easier and quite different from a middle ages mines. Or at least this should be true for mines of expensive items such as gold, mithril, silver, rubies, etc. If they have any significant veinage then they would repay the magic used and still make a notable profit. Copper mines and the like probably would not be viable for such, although I admit that since such is more common (and thus likely to have more produced for the same spellwork) it is possible that a good mine for such might be able to repay spellwork on its behalf and still turn a profit.

 

[Nellisir]

My mine experience is limited, but coal tends to occur in broad, but not necessarily thick, bands. So coal mines (which can be visited in Pennsylvania, and probably elsewhere) tend to have wide, low passages. It doesn't pay to raise the roof to 6' when the seam is only 4' high. Clearly, though, you can only take out so much this way before you have to leave a certain amount to support the rock above. Thus the popularity of stripmining, which can extract almost all the coal without cave-ins and other dangers.

 

[Jurble]

Coober Peady, a famous opal mine in Australia, has sections in which the miners (Dwarf-like) live underground, plucking the opals from the "walls" of their homes- and some are quite normal looking (except that there aren't any windows...). Its one of the few places on Earth in which expanding your house pays for itself.

This is kinda 1/2 correct, as the miners move futher into the hillside, the areas past have been converted into homes (and really nice comfy looking homes as well!). These homes honeycomb the hillside but since they are old mining ares there is no opal left in the areas they have passed

Another initeresting feature this has created is that if you look from outside, the hill is covered in little ventilation tube things (the tubes which stick out with a little conical top on them) from all the homes built into the mountain.

that would be an interesting feature of the land to notice while walking by! *scratch head* hmmmm interesting topography

 

[Hussar]

The point about magic is certainly true. Real world mines are certainly a good place to start, but the existence of low level magics as well as a number of "mining" species would certainly change things drastically. Why mine when you can simply get a high enough level wizard to bind an earth elemental and have him bring the gems to you? Charm monster and a purple worm could make mining a breeze. Kobold labourers would certainly stand in for the child labour that occured in the Middle Ages - stronger and tougher as well.

Heck, an everfull bottle set on geyser would make a perfect strip mining tool. And, it's not terribly expensive.

Something to note about salt mines. Salt is incredibly caustic. Check out Sandstorm for dehydration dangers.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Real world mines are certainly a good place to start, but the existence of low level magics as well as a number of "mining" species would certainly change things drastically. Why mine when you can simply get a high enough level wizard to bind an earth elemental and have him bring the gems to you?

Or they could attempt what certain voudoun have been known to do- raise an army of zombies to do the work...except in a fantasy setting, they'd really be the undead, instead of living people controlled by sophisticated chemistry and psychology.

Which could make a Necromancer a very wealthy person indeed. Why raise an undead horde to take over the world when you can have an undead work force and BUY the world?

 

[Treebore]

These are good points. In a higher level Goodman Interludes adventure there is a mine we had to go into to "clear out" these ogres and Trolls (I think). My Elemental Savant had a Stone of Earth Elementals. My party left there a lot richer than when we walked in. The only reason we didn't break the game, financially, is I chose not to, and persuaded the other players to reluctantly leave the mines moderately rich instead of filty rich. Only for game purposes, though.

Realisitically we had hit the jackpot and there was nothng that could of kept us from raking it all in.

So be careful about how you handle mines in a campaign. Plus, you can't realistically keep a determined party from finding a new mine with "detect" spells in uncontrolled territories. Plus, with an Earth Elemental you don't need to mine in any conventional sense, send the Earth Elemental in again and again until your bag of holding is full, then travel/teleport to the nearest city/cities to sell it all.

Yeah, to realisitically control these elements you have to have a fleshed out world where nations/city-states/guilds own and control all known mines with NPC's powerful enough to keep the PC's and their elementals out, and then hope you don't have a player that gets smart enough to create "prospecting" spells and go find their wealth.

 

[HandofMystra]

Just an answer to the original question .

On the following site, you have a few pictures of the older parts of the Rammelsberg mine, where mining took place during a period of about 1000 years: Page 1

Here is an example of a gallery dated at around 1150, though with quite a few more modern trappings: Page 2

Sorry, but the comments are only in French and German.

These are great shots. I am going to steal some to use for atmosphere for my players.