D&D 3E/3.5 What do you ban? (3.5)

[GreyLord]

I will have to respectfully disagree.

To me, PRCs represent a very elegant way of allowing players near unbridled freedom to customize their characters as they deem fit. Because the core classes only go so far in letting you flesh out the various character archetypes.

Likewise, I never really bought into that whole "you must be special to take a prc" bunk. For instance, a shadowdancer or assassin is simply a normal rogue who chose to focus more on certain areas at the expense of others. There is really nothing which makes a build with 7-8 classes+prcs any less of a fighter than a straight fighter20, IMO.

I recall once when a player came to gleemax asking for help in statting up his new PC, which was the offspring of a werebear barb and succubus bard. The end result contained lvs in barb, bard, rage mage, spellsword, bear warrior, sublime chord and eldritch knight! Yet amazingly enough, it fit his backstory to a perfect T!

So yeah, multiclass all you want, if it helps you roleplay better.

I'm pretty liberal as a DM, but for some reason every time someone mentions that their character was smoething like a half werebear half succubus Barb/Bard/Rage mage/Spellsword/Bear Warrior/sublime Chord/eldritch knight (or something else in that vein) I feel almost like these are the type of people that sort of drive people like me away from the game.

Then I remember, if I'm the DM I don't have to allow such things. I don't have to punish my self trying to remember half a trillion different things just so a player can 'roleplay' better...

I think that's about the most polite I can put it without getting myself banned.

I once came upon a guy who was playing a half vampire half werewolf troll ghoul who was about a dozen classes...it was the only game going on in the little area I was at for the month...but I backed away and decided I had other things to do...those types of games appeal to some...but I'm DEFINATELY NOT one of those. I find almost everyone I play with aren't either. In that light, I think I'd rather play football, go run a couple miles, or even more to the point...even jump off a cliff before being in a game like that. I'm actually driven away from gaming if that's all there is to play in.

I guess I'm just a different type of person than what these half everything with a dozen classes epitomize. Don't know if that's a good thing or bad thing.

 

[ProfessorCirno]

I'm pretty liberal as a DM, but for some reason every time someone mentions that their character was smoething like a half werebear half succubus Barb/Bard/Rage mage/Spellsword/Bear Warrior/sublime Chord/eldritch knight (or something else in that vein) I feel almost like these are the type of people that sort of drive people like me away from the game.

See, I laugh whenever I hear that, because that would be such a hilariously terrible character.

That's...sorta how most of these overblown examples go. They make this absurd list of twenty things mashed together, but the actual character that would make is awful.

...And so very, very much overshadowed by 20 Druid.

 

[Runestar]

See, I laugh whenever I hear that, because that would be such a hilariously terrible character.

That's...sorta how most of these overblown examples go. They make this absurd list of twenty things mashed together, but the actual character that would make is awful.

...And so very, very much overshadowed by 20 Druid.

It's funny you say that, the poster of that build made the very same admission (that his build was way weaker compared to a druid20). He knew his build would be weak, but he wanted it to be as optimized as it could be within the roleplaying constraints he set, which the CO boards delivered (sorta).

I mean, you end up with +17bab and 9th lv spells at lv20. Good enough in my book, though the early game seems like a mess.

I know it is extreme, but my point is basically that you don't have to multiclass to create a powerful character. Likewise, if your character backstory requires 2,3 or more classes to represent what it is capable of mechanics-wise, why not? It seems contradictory to claim that you support roleplaying, yet deny players the very tools they need to accomplish this.

Then again, I am one of those people who have sworn off core races and PHB classes after being enamoured with the monster class builds in savage species and can never go back to playing a "mundane" combination ever again. So perhaps I am an anomaly here.

After all, you are looking at someone who initially registered at Enworld precisely to lambast people for their anti-optimization stance...

 

[Eldritch_Lord]

Celebrim, have you ever posted your complete house rules anywhere? It sounds like you've fixed the magic/martial disparity to your satisfaction, and I'd like to see how that's turned out.

 

[Celebrim]

Celebrim, have you ever posted your complete house rules anywhere? It sounds like you've fixed the magic/martial disparity to your satisfaction, and I'd like to see how that's turned out.

Ongoing project.

What started out as going to be 100 pages blossumed into 500 and it still needs alot of editting. And I'm still not wholly satisfied or finished with bits and peices of it. Typically further work gets done on it only as it starts to be very important to the actual game I'm playing, and work got delayed quite a bit because I got into WoW.

I've posted bits and peices in the past, and may do so in the future on request or whim (I've been thinking of posting the Champion class rules, for example), but no plans to post the whole document at this time.

 

[Dandu]

I'm pretty liberal as a DM, but for some reason every time someone mentions that their character was smoething like a half werebear half succubus Barb/Bard/Rage mage/Spellsword/Bear Warrior/sublime Chord/eldritch knight (or something else in that vein) I feel almost like these are the type of people that sort of drive people like me away from the game.

How do you feel about Fistbeard Beardfist?

 

[GreyLord]

How do you feel about Fistbeard Beardfist?

I gotta go puke for a second....


Okay...now that that's done...At least he's just a dwarf instead of 9 halfs of something to equal 1 whole.


why not just say he's a Ranger 3 instead of Ranger 2/Monk2/Ranger 1/etc.?

I don't think it's the best build...but even more...a little aggravating.

If I were DM'ing I'd out law him, Too many classes and stuff for me as DM to think about, worry about, try to remember all the rules for and how they interact...at least more than I'm interested in doing.

As a player...bearable...at least currently...though the backstory is convoluted enough to seem a little contrived...perhaps for the reason below?

However I guess he's supposed to be a humor character? Makes it a even a little more bearable as it's probably made to mock fun at the entire thing anyways.

 

[Dandu]

I gotta go puke for a second....

Classy response to someone else's work.

why not just say he's a Ranger 3 instead of Ranger 2/Monk2/Ranger 1/etc.?

In case someone asks what the exact order of the classes were.

If I were DM'ing I'd out law him, Too many classes and stuff for me as DM to think about, worry about, try to remember all the rules for and how they interact...at least more than I'm interested in doing.

I guess if you don't want to have to deal with lots of complicated rules as a DM, that's fair enough... but I summed up all the non-core rules you'd have to know and it was a pretty short list.

*Poison Healer: Heal 5 + Constitution modifier hit points every time you successfully resist a poison.
*Steadfast Determination: Use Constitution modifier in the place of Wisdom modifier for will saves. Also, a natural 1 on a fortitude save is not an automatic failure.
*Snap Kick: Make one additional unarmed strike attack per round; all attacks that round take a -2 penalty.
*Stonewarden: A Deepwarden may use his Constitution modifier in place of his Dexterity if his Constitution is higher. This bonus is lost in all situations that a Dexterity bonus would be lost under.
*Fist of the Forest AC bonus: While unarmored, you gain a bonus to your Armor Class equal to your Constitution bonus (if any). See the monk class feature (PH 40).
*Feral Trance: For the duration of the trance, you gain a +4 bonus to Dexterity and a +2 bonus on damage rolls with your unarmed strikes. You can also make one bite attack per round at your highest attack bonus whenever you attack as a full-round action.
The damage for this attack is 1d6 + your Str modifier, regardless of your size. A feral trance lasts for a number of rounds equal to 3 + your Con modifier. While in a trance, you cannot perform certain actions, and afterward you are fatigued. These restrictions are the same as those for the barbarian's rage class feature (PH 25-26).
*Signature Weapon: A Kensai gains the ability to enchant his signature weapon and imbue it with power.
*Power Surge: A Kensai may make a DC 15 concentration check as a move action in order to gain +8 to Strength for a number of rounds equal to one half his Kensai level. The DC increases by 5 each time he uses the ability within a 24 hour period.

That's 8 things you'd have to worry about... most of which aren't complicated or hard to learn.

As a player...bearable...at least currently...though the backstory is convoluted enough to seem a little contrived...perhaps for the reason below?

As a player... why do you care if the character's mechanics are complicated or not? If I want to create a reasonably powerful character but need several classes to pull off the mechanics, how is that detracting from your enjoyment of the game? If the multiclassing was indicative of an inability to roleplay well, I can see how that would detract from your fun, but then you're jumping to conclusions about my roleplaying ability.

For the record, I have played a lower level version of this character in a RHOD game before, and much fun was had by all, including several dedicated roleplayers.

However I guess he's supposed to be a humor character? Makes it a even a little more bearable as it's probably made to mock fun at the entire thing anyways.

He's supposed to be a dwarf who is can shrug off blows and resist spells due to sheer toughness, heal from drinking alcohol, fight like James Kirk, and wield his beard as a weapon.

 

[Wyvernhand]

I gotta go puke for a second....

Dewd, wtf? Seriously? How would you like it if you painted a picture, and some stranger said it looked like someone's butt, and it made him want to gouge his eyes out with a dull spoon? Seriously, thats VERY insulting.

Simplicity does not guaruntee bliss. You COULD roleplay the character exactly the same as say...a Barbarian20, and you could have just as much fun, so...why not play something lke this? It fits together relatively seamlessly, if you actually took the time to break it down. Monk/Ranger might not seem like classes that thematically fit, but you could say that there is zen in nature. Instead of meditating in his rock garden, maybe he meditates in a tree. Or whatever. And then if you look at the Fist of the Forest PrC, its basically a Monk/Ranger or Monk/Barbarian combo class, kinda like how Eldritch Knight is a Fighter/Wizard hybred. Deepwarden is simply about becoming as tough as the stones you stand on, and Kensai is a continuation of the Monk-like ideal of honing one's body as a weapon?

Seriously, look at something before you make snide comments like that. Its rude, and it makes you look ignorant. 3.5 is a modular system. Its strength is that you CAN do stuff like this. How is playing a character put together like this detrimental to your own fun? Why couldn't you be more accepting of others wishes to play as they wish, and you yourself play as you want without others judgement.

 

[Runestar]

Puking over a build like that?

Ranger 2 / Monk 2 / Ranger 1 / Deepwarden 2 / Fist of the Forest 3 / Kensai 2

Seriously, this stuff is already considered fairly tame compared to the rest I have seen. And it is even backed up with a witty and well-written backstory. I would approve this in a heartbeat!

Only thing is that I would insist that he use fractonal bab/saves, so avoid potentially abusive stacking of saves. But otherwise yeah, no problems as far as I can see.