Greenfield
Adventurer
This is a tale of odd rules insanity. We were facing a pair of monsters, intelligent creatures from the Elemental plane of Air that had been summoned to guard a relic. They were huge things with circular mouths and multiple rows of razor sharp teeth and long tentacles.
They were CR 16 or some such (MM III) and were supposed to be a spell caster's worst nightmare. They get Greater Dispel as an at-will ability, Spell Turning, and Anti-Magic Field. They're designed to counterspell, dispel, and generally make PC magics useless.
My Bard approached as close to them as he could and began to play, intending to Fascinate. We observed all the rules carefully this time, and everyone avoided casting any spells or drawing any weapons. He rolled well on the Perform checks, so the Will Save DCs would have been 50 and 47. Except that these were immune to mind affecting magics. They flew around and enjoyed the music though, and then at one point one of them comments (in Auran) that, while the music was very nice, if my friend got two steps closer to that sword, they'd have to kill him.
So battle was joined. Except that it wasn't. The combat sequence for these guys usually begins with Anti-Magic Field, then they swoop in and eat you. (They have Swallow Whole).
As soon as they did that I asked the DM if these were summoned monsters, or were they there by means of something like a Gate spell. I made the reason for my question clear: Summoned monsters vanish when an Anti-Magic effect covers them.
He considered that: How were they here? Would they make that mistake to begin with? A quick check showed an INT of 13 for the, so an honest mistake was fairly credible, particularly when it's their documented combat sequence. As for how they're here, Planar Binding has a Summon spell as it's foundation, and limits the area the creature can be in until and unless you strike some bargain. Summon Planar Ally is a summoning spell that usually calls for a bargain as well. Gate can call them here and compel a single service, or you can negotiate for extended services.
Of all of those, Gate is the only one that calls forth more than an aspect, and is the only one that can't be reversed via a Dispel-like power.
So the monsters opened the battle by banishing themselves. Now the rules for Anti-Magic are clear that the Summoned creature can't exist in the area. And as soon as the Anti-Magic ends or moves away they come back.
So the monster casts Anti-Magic and banishes itself. At which point the Anti-Magic effect ends. Which brings the monster back, along with its Anti-Magic effect.
Do you get a magical feedback loop, with the creature flickering in and out of existence at an insane rate? Or are they just banished for the spell's duration?
Our DM ruled they were just gone, until they could dismiss the effect. So round 1 they banish themselves, and we grab the sword and start to run.
Round 2 they dismiss the effect, which is a Standard Action. They pop back and can move but not attack. We continue with the "Run like hell" approach.
There was a prophesy about this relic, that it was destined for the hand of a demi-god. These guys term of service was until somebody finds a way past them and takes the blade. We were past them, had the blade and were in full retreat mode. Their contract was done.
So round 3 was for them to wish us good luck.
To illustrate the level of insanity in the scene: We were on top of Gibraltar, the "Pillars of Hercules". "Run lik hell" mode for me was to have my Bard spur his horse forward into a full run, right off the cliff, casting Feather Fall on the mount as we dropped. Gibraltar is 3,000 feet high, but it isn't a sheer drop so I needed to get some momentum to clear as much distance as possible. Once Feather Fall was in effect he pulled out a Quall's Feather Token, a Wind Fan. to give him a tail wind and keep him away from the cliff face. I think I set the party record in "Get the hell out".
The whole situation had us laughing. The DM had carefully planned this huge combat encounter, one that he expected to take half the session and it self-destructed in the first round.
So I guess the question would be, how would you handle it if a summoned creature tried to use Anti-Magic in combat?
They were CR 16 or some such (MM III) and were supposed to be a spell caster's worst nightmare. They get Greater Dispel as an at-will ability, Spell Turning, and Anti-Magic Field. They're designed to counterspell, dispel, and generally make PC magics useless.
My Bard approached as close to them as he could and began to play, intending to Fascinate. We observed all the rules carefully this time, and everyone avoided casting any spells or drawing any weapons. He rolled well on the Perform checks, so the Will Save DCs would have been 50 and 47. Except that these were immune to mind affecting magics. They flew around and enjoyed the music though, and then at one point one of them comments (in Auran) that, while the music was very nice, if my friend got two steps closer to that sword, they'd have to kill him.
So battle was joined. Except that it wasn't. The combat sequence for these guys usually begins with Anti-Magic Field, then they swoop in and eat you. (They have Swallow Whole).
As soon as they did that I asked the DM if these were summoned monsters, or were they there by means of something like a Gate spell. I made the reason for my question clear: Summoned monsters vanish when an Anti-Magic effect covers them.
He considered that: How were they here? Would they make that mistake to begin with? A quick check showed an INT of 13 for the, so an honest mistake was fairly credible, particularly when it's their documented combat sequence. As for how they're here, Planar Binding has a Summon spell as it's foundation, and limits the area the creature can be in until and unless you strike some bargain. Summon Planar Ally is a summoning spell that usually calls for a bargain as well. Gate can call them here and compel a single service, or you can negotiate for extended services.
Of all of those, Gate is the only one that calls forth more than an aspect, and is the only one that can't be reversed via a Dispel-like power.
So the monsters opened the battle by banishing themselves. Now the rules for Anti-Magic are clear that the Summoned creature can't exist in the area. And as soon as the Anti-Magic ends or moves away they come back.
So the monster casts Anti-Magic and banishes itself. At which point the Anti-Magic effect ends. Which brings the monster back, along with its Anti-Magic effect.
Do you get a magical feedback loop, with the creature flickering in and out of existence at an insane rate? Or are they just banished for the spell's duration?
Our DM ruled they were just gone, until they could dismiss the effect. So round 1 they banish themselves, and we grab the sword and start to run.
Round 2 they dismiss the effect, which is a Standard Action. They pop back and can move but not attack. We continue with the "Run like hell" approach.
There was a prophesy about this relic, that it was destined for the hand of a demi-god. These guys term of service was until somebody finds a way past them and takes the blade. We were past them, had the blade and were in full retreat mode. Their contract was done.
So round 3 was for them to wish us good luck.
To illustrate the level of insanity in the scene: We were on top of Gibraltar, the "Pillars of Hercules". "Run lik hell" mode for me was to have my Bard spur his horse forward into a full run, right off the cliff, casting Feather Fall on the mount as we dropped. Gibraltar is 3,000 feet high, but it isn't a sheer drop so I needed to get some momentum to clear as much distance as possible. Once Feather Fall was in effect he pulled out a Quall's Feather Token, a Wind Fan. to give him a tail wind and keep him away from the cliff face. I think I set the party record in "Get the hell out".
The whole situation had us laughing. The DM had carefully planned this huge combat encounter, one that he expected to take half the session and it self-destructed in the first round.
So I guess the question would be, how would you handle it if a summoned creature tried to use Anti-Magic in combat?
