What do you most enjoy in fantasy lit?
- Thread starter Achilles
- Start date
Furn_Darkside
First Post
Characters!
Without them being well done, the book is just a sourcebook for the other options.
FD
Without them being well done, the book is just a sourcebook for the other options.
FD
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BigFreekinGoblinoid
First Post
True True. All else in a book is just supporting material for the characterization. If I have no emotion ( good OR bad ) for the characters in a book, I quickly lose interest no matter how cool any other bits and pieces may be.
John Crichton
First Post
Stories of personal triumph, loss and overall growth are the best. My favorite books are the ones where the characters are changed people at the end.
Good luck with your writing. Just remember to have fun.
Good luck with your writing. Just remember to have fun.
Shadowdancer
First Post
Kinky sex!
No, actually the characters. To me, none of that other stuff matters if the characters are boring or uninteresting. If you have no emotional investment in the characters, the rest never truly comes to life.
No, actually the characters. To me, none of that other stuff matters if the characters are boring or uninteresting. If you have no emotional investment in the characters, the rest never truly comes to life.
Lady Starhawk
First Post
Characters are hands down the most important thing for me. I have continued to read books that had horrible or predictable plots, a lack luster world, and lame action just because I was wrapped up in the characters.
When I am involved in the characters I tend to be a little more forgiving of the other things going on such as plot-holes and inconsistiencies. I like my characters to be realistic though, I don't like perfect characters, I get turned off by them. (Drizzt comes to mind among others...) But if the characters change over time and have flaws as well as strengths and I care about the characters as almost real people I will continue reading. When I am into a story I get anxious for the characters, I worry about them, and that's what keeps me reading to the end.
I read a book series called Deathlands. IT's somewhere around book 50 and I have and have read all of them. I read them because of the characters. I know these characters as well as, or better than, people I know in real life. I accept a lot on faith in the story as long as the characters are consistient to what has been established.
This is also partly why I had trouble reading Tolkien. I had tried reading LOTR several times but I got bogged down with the information about the world. It wasn't until I saw FOTR that I was able to see the characters as more important than the world and I read it in that context (I skipped over a lot of stuff that didn't seem to directly affect the characters and I don't think I missed anything, though many will argue that with me.)
Of course plot-holes 3 miles wide and gaps in information that leave me confused can't be covered up with wonderful characterization, but small things will be overlooked in my book if I care more about the characters than the plot.
Just my $0.02,
Lady Starhawk
When I am involved in the characters I tend to be a little more forgiving of the other things going on such as plot-holes and inconsistiencies. I like my characters to be realistic though, I don't like perfect characters, I get turned off by them. (Drizzt comes to mind among others...) But if the characters change over time and have flaws as well as strengths and I care about the characters as almost real people I will continue reading. When I am into a story I get anxious for the characters, I worry about them, and that's what keeps me reading to the end.
I read a book series called Deathlands. IT's somewhere around book 50 and I have and have read all of them. I read them because of the characters. I know these characters as well as, or better than, people I know in real life. I accept a lot on faith in the story as long as the characters are consistient to what has been established.
This is also partly why I had trouble reading Tolkien. I had tried reading LOTR several times but I got bogged down with the information about the world. It wasn't until I saw FOTR that I was able to see the characters as more important than the world and I read it in that context (I skipped over a lot of stuff that didn't seem to directly affect the characters and I don't think I missed anything, though many will argue that with me.)
Of course plot-holes 3 miles wide and gaps in information that leave me confused can't be covered up with wonderful characterization, but small things will be overlooked in my book if I care more about the characters than the plot.
Just my $0.02,
Lady Starhawk
I'm greedy and picky. So if it were up to me, a novel would have it all!
Great imaginative setting/history, great characters, great plot, great storytelling style.
As an author, I imagine you would shoot high and try for all of that. If your current skill happens to be weak in certain spots, after the whole thing is written, then you know what part of your craft you gotta practice more. So in other words, concentrate hard on all those aspects equally. But of course an author would naturally try for that anyways. I'm sure it doesn't hurt to say it again though.
Examples of books I had troubles with will give you an idea of stories that were great in one area, but failed in another.
The following are based off my opinions and tastes, so I apologize ahead of time if I offend any fans of the following books
--- "Dragon Prince" : Rawn creates a pretty cool world and I like the concept of the Sunrunners. Its not typical fantasy fare, y'know Eurocentric landscape, elves, dwares, etc. So once I began reading it, I was intrigued. Then the characters were very likeable too. So why am I having trouble getting through this book? The storytelling style I think.
Now, I'm not saying all fantasy should be hack 'n slash and follow some formula of rationing out action to keep the reader awake, BUT.......man, I'm 300 some pages into this book and besides the little action in the beginning, its been Rialla this, Rialla that! The Rialla is this meeting/festival thing that takes place every 3 years where all the rulers of the different lands gather to deal with trades and other affairs. But man, its taking SO ....MUCH....TIME. None of political manueverings keep me interested long enough. Basically......its all intrigue, shopping for jewels,.....and no adventure. The romance is nice though....but that's it. Even that's getting too sappy.
George R.R. Martin, for me at least, can keep me interested for tons of pages even though there's no battles anywhere. I'm just turning pages constantly. So, a political intrigue heavy novel can be done without boring a reader. Its just in "Dragon Prince", its boring me. I'm struggling to get through this book.....I fear I have not the strength anymore......
--- "The Deathgate Cycle" : Wow, cool concept. Nicely thought up worlds. Then the authors ruin it with some stupid 'wink at camera' nerdy jokes. I finish the first book and become excited to go on to the second. I'm thinking I'm in this series for the long haul. I'm gonna read 'em all! So I start reading the second book, then I notice the whole tone suddenly becomes very comical. I think that's okay though, because moments of light hearted adventure is okay. Then Weis and Hickman have Fizban show up and make silly references on how he's met characters from Dragonlance and Lord of the Rings.
Killed it for me. My enthusiasm came to a screeching halt. Haven't touched the rest of book two or the rest of the series since.
So there's another thing to watch out for. If you feel tempted to but in an inside joke or something. Think about it carefully first. It may be funny to you and your friends, but really....is it worth it? You think its so great, but really, the book may not even need it. A teacher told me once, "you gotta be willing to kill your babies." Each idea you think is cool is one of your many 'babies'. You cherish them so. But sometimes, for the good of the book, or the movie, or the comic book, or cartoon (this applies to visual mediums too) you gotta edit out and kill one of your babies. It hurts, I know....but you gotta do it.
A lot of director commentaries on DVDs may talk of such moves too. Things they loved a lot, but had to let go for the sake of the film. I believe the same applies in writing.
If you can maintain a way of objectively looking at your writing project and being able to maintain it through out the creation of it, then I think that's a huge task many creators/writers fail to accomplish. It maybe that Weis/Hickman didn't intend the majority of the DeathGate Cycle audience to be like me, so it could be written for a crowd of different readers with different tastes. In that case, I guess the advice would be to 'know your audience', and don't mind the fact that a few outside that demographic just aren't gonna like your stuff.
Constantly think of the stuff you don't like when you read crappy books. If you see it appear in your own work, then that list of crappy stuff becomes your 'filter'. You'll know what to re-write and take out. Many times I've sat with writers ( a few friends of mine) who constanty say how this is stupid or that is stupid. Then I read their writing and I see some of the exact same stuff they think is stupid appear in their own work. Please don't make that mistake too my friend.
Hope some of my comments might've helped. If not, I apologize for my long winded babblings.
Great imaginative setting/history, great characters, great plot, great storytelling style.
As an author, I imagine you would shoot high and try for all of that. If your current skill happens to be weak in certain spots, after the whole thing is written, then you know what part of your craft you gotta practice more. So in other words, concentrate hard on all those aspects equally. But of course an author would naturally try for that anyways. I'm sure it doesn't hurt to say it again though.
Examples of books I had troubles with will give you an idea of stories that were great in one area, but failed in another.
The following are based off my opinions and tastes, so I apologize ahead of time if I offend any fans of the following books
--- "Dragon Prince" : Rawn creates a pretty cool world and I like the concept of the Sunrunners. Its not typical fantasy fare, y'know Eurocentric landscape, elves, dwares, etc. So once I began reading it, I was intrigued. Then the characters were very likeable too. So why am I having trouble getting through this book? The storytelling style I think.
Now, I'm not saying all fantasy should be hack 'n slash and follow some formula of rationing out action to keep the reader awake, BUT.......man, I'm 300 some pages into this book and besides the little action in the beginning, its been Rialla this, Rialla that! The Rialla is this meeting/festival thing that takes place every 3 years where all the rulers of the different lands gather to deal with trades and other affairs. But man, its taking SO ....MUCH....TIME. None of political manueverings keep me interested long enough. Basically......its all intrigue, shopping for jewels,.....and no adventure. The romance is nice though....but that's it. Even that's getting too sappy.
George R.R. Martin, for me at least, can keep me interested for tons of pages even though there's no battles anywhere. I'm just turning pages constantly. So, a political intrigue heavy novel can be done without boring a reader. Its just in "Dragon Prince", its boring me. I'm struggling to get through this book.....I fear I have not the strength anymore......
--- "The Deathgate Cycle" : Wow, cool concept. Nicely thought up worlds. Then the authors ruin it with some stupid 'wink at camera' nerdy jokes. I finish the first book and become excited to go on to the second. I'm thinking I'm in this series for the long haul. I'm gonna read 'em all! So I start reading the second book, then I notice the whole tone suddenly becomes very comical. I think that's okay though, because moments of light hearted adventure is okay. Then Weis and Hickman have Fizban show up and make silly references on how he's met characters from Dragonlance and Lord of the Rings.
Killed it for me. My enthusiasm came to a screeching halt. Haven't touched the rest of book two or the rest of the series since.
So there's another thing to watch out for. If you feel tempted to but in an inside joke or something. Think about it carefully first. It may be funny to you and your friends, but really....is it worth it? You think its so great, but really, the book may not even need it. A teacher told me once, "you gotta be willing to kill your babies." Each idea you think is cool is one of your many 'babies'. You cherish them so. But sometimes, for the good of the book, or the movie, or the comic book, or cartoon (this applies to visual mediums too) you gotta edit out and kill one of your babies. It hurts, I know....but you gotta do it.
A lot of director commentaries on DVDs may talk of such moves too. Things they loved a lot, but had to let go for the sake of the film. I believe the same applies in writing.
If you can maintain a way of objectively looking at your writing project and being able to maintain it through out the creation of it, then I think that's a huge task many creators/writers fail to accomplish. It maybe that Weis/Hickman didn't intend the majority of the DeathGate Cycle audience to be like me, so it could be written for a crowd of different readers with different tastes. In that case, I guess the advice would be to 'know your audience', and don't mind the fact that a few outside that demographic just aren't gonna like your stuff.
Constantly think of the stuff you don't like when you read crappy books. If you see it appear in your own work, then that list of crappy stuff becomes your 'filter'. You'll know what to re-write and take out. Many times I've sat with writers ( a few friends of mine) who constanty say how this is stupid or that is stupid. Then I read their writing and I see some of the exact same stuff they think is stupid appear in their own work. Please don't make that mistake too my friend.
Hope some of my comments might've helped. If not, I apologize for my long winded babblings.
Dark Jezter
First Post
I would say character. The cast of characters in a fantasy novel can make or break the story.
A lacking storyline can be easily forgiven if the characters are interesting, but a great storyline will feel kind of bland if you don't care about any of the characters. That was one reason I could never get into Wheel of Time; with the exception of Mat and Perrin, I didn't really care about any of the characters.
A lacking storyline can be easily forgiven if the characters are interesting, but a great storyline will feel kind of bland if you don't care about any of the characters. That was one reason I could never get into Wheel of Time; with the exception of Mat and Perrin, I didn't really care about any of the characters.
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