What do you think of poison in d20
- Thread starter Turanil
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Voadam
Legend
I like that there is a non-magical way to do ability damage in 3e. Having different poisons do different things seems reasonable to me, so hp damage as an option as in the poisons in the assassin section of the 1e DMG seem fine.
Having everything be an instant effect and possibly something else kick in 1 minute later is a bit odd though. Particularly when you compare to real world poisons that are trying to be modeled.
Having everything be an instant effect and possibly something else kick in 1 minute later is a bit odd though. Particularly when you compare to real world poisons that are trying to be modeled.
Snowy
Explorer
good point someone said about mundane things being much less challenge at higher levels.
Maybe what you want are some magical poisons for higher levels, higher cost, higher DC, nastier/weirder effects.
I like the idea of triple distilled poisons or concentrated ones, as soon as we get a lab my rohues gonna be trying to brew some up. Cant remember where I saw the rules, basically take 2 doses mix them run them through your poison making kit (alchemy set i guess) get one dose with either ahigher DC or a worse effect. simple and seems to raise the price and effects suitably for higher level play.
Do agree with what people are sayign about other amusing effects, theres some good ones already and a lot can be done with a description. My rogue has some LESSER spotted mushrooms (-1 wis, -1 wis rather than -1d6 for the normalones) blended subtley into food of a merchant as you deal with them to lower their perception to con them better
Isn't it amazing how some threads just fire your imagination now I'm off to stat up some poison made using baleful polymorph as the base.
ingested i reckon
fail save - over the course of a minute you turn into a rat
fail save - lose your mind (not happy with that it should stay a fort save.)
Maybe what you want are some magical poisons for higher levels, higher cost, higher DC, nastier/weirder effects.
I like the idea of triple distilled poisons or concentrated ones, as soon as we get a lab my rohues gonna be trying to brew some up. Cant remember where I saw the rules, basically take 2 doses mix them run them through your poison making kit (alchemy set i guess) get one dose with either ahigher DC or a worse effect. simple and seems to raise the price and effects suitably for higher level play.
Do agree with what people are sayign about other amusing effects, theres some good ones already and a lot can be done with a description. My rogue has some LESSER spotted mushrooms (-1 wis, -1 wis rather than -1d6 for the normalones) blended subtley into food of a merchant as you deal with them to lower their perception to con them better
Isn't it amazing how some threads just fire your imagination now I'm off to stat up some poison made using baleful polymorph as the base.
ingested i reckon
fail save - over the course of a minute you turn into a rat
fail save - lose your mind (not happy with that it should stay a fort save.)
RangerWickett
Legend
Poison in the real world just doesn't work the way the rules say it does. If you get bit by a rattlesnake, you'll be getting worse and worse over the course of hours, not just a minute.
The rules I always wanted to write, but could never get simple enough, worked like this:
Every poison has a damage rating, a damage cap, a speed, a duration, and a DC. They might also have special rules.
For instance - Arsenic. Dmg - 1d6 Con (DC 12, slow), Dmg Cap - 12 Con.
Blue Ring Octopus poison. Dmg - 2d6 Dex (DC 20, fast), Dmg Cap - 20 Dex/Con. Special: Once the creature's Dex is reduced to 0, additional ability damage is converted to Con damage.
Drow sleep poison - Dmg - 1d6 Str (DC 17, medium), Dmg Cap - 15 Str.
The speed ratings are slow, medium, and fast.
Slow poison calls for a save one minute after the poison is introduced into the creature's body. Each minute thereafter the creature makes another save. After 10 minutes, the saves slow to one every ten minutes, then after an hour they slow to one every hour. After a day, or once the poison reaches its damage cap, the creature needs to make no more saves.
Medium poison calls for a save immediately, then another one a minute later. Each minute thereafter another save is required, until a day passes or the poison reaches its damage cap.
Fast poison calls for a save every round, until a day passes or the poison reaches its damage cap.
A special rule for poisons would say that nat 1s don't automatically fail a save against poison. Some creatures are just too tough to be affected by some poisons.
The rules I always wanted to write, but could never get simple enough, worked like this:
Every poison has a damage rating, a damage cap, a speed, a duration, and a DC. They might also have special rules.
For instance - Arsenic. Dmg - 1d6 Con (DC 12, slow), Dmg Cap - 12 Con.
Blue Ring Octopus poison. Dmg - 2d6 Dex (DC 20, fast), Dmg Cap - 20 Dex/Con. Special: Once the creature's Dex is reduced to 0, additional ability damage is converted to Con damage.
Drow sleep poison - Dmg - 1d6 Str (DC 17, medium), Dmg Cap - 15 Str.
The speed ratings are slow, medium, and fast.
Slow poison calls for a save one minute after the poison is introduced into the creature's body. Each minute thereafter the creature makes another save. After 10 minutes, the saves slow to one every ten minutes, then after an hour they slow to one every hour. After a day, or once the poison reaches its damage cap, the creature needs to make no more saves.
Medium poison calls for a save immediately, then another one a minute later. Each minute thereafter another save is required, until a day passes or the poison reaches its damage cap.
Fast poison calls for a save every round, until a day passes or the poison reaches its damage cap.
A special rule for poisons would say that nat 1s don't automatically fail a save against poison. Some creatures are just too tough to be affected by some poisons.
Sejs
First Post
I pretty much use poisons as they're presented as-is in d20, with the only major change being that if a poison that does damage to an attribute other than constitution and reduces that attribute to 0, any additional damage to said attribute is instead then dealt to Con.
Essentially Con poisons are immediatly fatal, but if you get pumped to the gills with poison no matter the type it might still kill you. There arn't fully non-lethal poisons, there are just less-lethal poisons. Take some strength damaging poison and you'll be rendered helpless. Too much strength damaging poison and your lungs won't be able to inflate and your heart will stop.
I do also occasionally use toxins where either the initial or secondary damage isn't necessarily stat damage, but instead a status effect of some kind such as sleep, confusion, or whatever.
Essentially Con poisons are immediatly fatal, but if you get pumped to the gills with poison no matter the type it might still kill you. There arn't fully non-lethal poisons, there are just less-lethal poisons. Take some strength damaging poison and you'll be rendered helpless. Too much strength damaging poison and your lungs won't be able to inflate and your heart will stop.
I do also occasionally use toxins where either the initial or secondary damage isn't necessarily stat damage, but instead a status effect of some kind such as sleep, confusion, or whatever.
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JRRNeiklot
First Post
I like 3es ability damage poisons in theory, but in practice, it makes for too much book keeping. Waiting for the fighter to recalculate his hit points, or ac, or attack bonus sucks.
If I ever get to run a C&C game, I'll use hit point damage or save or dies. Much simpler imo, though maybe not as realistic.
If I ever get to run a C&C game, I'll use hit point damage or save or dies. Much simpler imo, though maybe not as realistic.
Saeviomagy
Adventurer
I think perhaps the simplest change to poison is this:
1. roll the primary and secondary damages (or just take the maximum...)
2. Apply primary 1 point at a time, one round at a time with a save to negate each point, starting the round after the poison is injected.
3. Apply secondary damage 1 point at a time, one round at a time, with a save to negate each point.
If a single stage does two types of damage, apply the smaller effect simultaeneously with the last steps of the larger effect. ie - if it's 1d3 wis, 1d2 int, roll both. Wis comes up 3, int comes up 2, so failed saves in subsequent rounds result in
round 1: -1 wis
round 2: -1 wis, -1 int
round 3: -1 wis, -1 int
if wis had rolled a 1, we'd have ended up with
round 1: -1 int
round 2: -1 int, -1 wis
A save is required to negate each point to each stat.
If a poison's effect is an instant thing like unconsciousness or paralysation, then you should probably pick a stat for it to do a large amount (3d6) of damage to, wisdom, dex, strength, charisma or intelligence. Also, have such damage clear up at the rate of 1 point per minute of rest instead of 1 point per day. This lets you represent groggyness and the like upon waking, without having characters badly crippled for too long.
1. roll the primary and secondary damages (or just take the maximum...)
2. Apply primary 1 point at a time, one round at a time with a save to negate each point, starting the round after the poison is injected.
3. Apply secondary damage 1 point at a time, one round at a time, with a save to negate each point.
If a single stage does two types of damage, apply the smaller effect simultaeneously with the last steps of the larger effect. ie - if it's 1d3 wis, 1d2 int, roll both. Wis comes up 3, int comes up 2, so failed saves in subsequent rounds result in
round 1: -1 wis
round 2: -1 wis, -1 int
round 3: -1 wis, -1 int
if wis had rolled a 1, we'd have ended up with
round 1: -1 int
round 2: -1 int, -1 wis
A save is required to negate each point to each stat.
If a poison's effect is an instant thing like unconsciousness or paralysation, then you should probably pick a stat for it to do a large amount (3d6) of damage to, wisdom, dex, strength, charisma or intelligence. Also, have such damage clear up at the rate of 1 point per minute of rest instead of 1 point per day. This lets you represent groggyness and the like upon waking, without having characters badly crippled for too long.
HellHound
ENnies winner and NOT Scrappy Doo
While I like that system, it is -anything- but simple in implementation as it requires recalculating derived abilities on a round-by-round basis in combat, not something I like the idea of.
The recalculation of derived abilities is already a complaint about the existing poison system. (see two posts above)
The recalculation of derived abilities is already a complaint about the existing poison system. (see two posts above)
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