D&D 5E (2024) [+] What does a non-spellcaster Psion need/look like?

[EzekielRaiden]

This is sort of a prelude to future musings, looking to survey the field rather than debate per se. What do you think a Psion needs, if they are not, in any way, a spellcaster?

Please note the [+], if you are genuinely and entirely of the opinion that a spellcaster Psion is the correct path to pursue, or if you think a non-spellcaster Psion is unnecessary, unhelpful, unlikely, counterproductive, etc., etc., then while I recognize your opinion as valid, it's not constructive for this thread, and only going to result in "NUH-UH!" "UH-HUH!" slap-fights. I've had my fill of those as of late.

I of course have my own ideas, but I'd prefer to take a back seat and hear what others have to say for a while first. So--tell me your non-spell-based Psion ideas, or expectations, or desires, or vague formless design notions, or whatever! Doesn't need to be hyper-specific.

 

[James Gasik]

I think psionics could very well justify a return to encounter abilities. The powers are things you can just do, without any points or spell slots, but they are mentally and physically taxing enough that you need at least a brief amount of time to utilize them again. These are powers a humanoid mind might not be designed to wield, and so there is a limit to how far you can push your limits to manifest them.

I think it was Star Wars SAGA that had Force powers work in this manner. So you could have one Psionic ability that could be used 1/5-10 minutes or so. Developing a second power gives you the ability to use that ability, and now you can use two powers before you need to recharge- either both powers once or one power twice. And so on, so each power learned increases both capacity and what you can do.

This way, individual powers are stronger than a cantrip, but weaker than a spell slot, though they should all scale in some way. This means that eventually, your encounter powers are better than low level spell slots, but they'll never be as strong as the highest level spells.

It gives them a unique balance point, where they never quite reach busted levels of power, but can use their abilities frequently throughout an adventuring day.

The only question then would be to decide what the Psionicist does when they are out of juice, though once they have 3-4 powers, they should be fine for most encounters, as long as they have some combat ability, like say a Mind Thrust or Telekinetic Missile.

Subclasses could focus on a particular type of ability, be it Telekinesis, Telepathy, ESP, etc. etc..

 

[Zardnaar]

Probably psionic points based a d8 hit dice maybe lightning armor.

Conceptually warlock perhaps in terms of mechanics. Limited to two or 3 "schools". Maybe one more eg psychometabolic, psychokinetic and psy warrior subclasses.

Probably very few Powers maybe 4E like or SWSE. Conceptually bits of 3.5 one as well.

You could also put aura on them.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Like a spellcaster that just uses spell points instead of spell slots?
And powers that replicate spells but are not.

 

[CreamCloud0]

mostly i think they need a small (per individual character) selection of specializations that give them a number of at-will and/or quick-recharge abilities that can be enhanced into stronger versions and variants by using points from an easy come-easy go 'energy' resource pool, it would also be very thematic for them to have some sort of mechanic that lets them use more points than they have or instantly recharge at the cost of some backlash or burnout: loosing their next turn, a level of exhaustion, loosing HP(and temporarily reduced maximum), not being able to use anything from that specialization for [diceroll] turns.

for example, (i'm going to be using spells here but only as example reference points,) you pick a pyrokinetic specialization and you might get three at-will abilities: produce flame, control flames and absorb elements(fire), a telekinetic might have mage hand and catapult, a...warding? psion might have shield, blade ward and armour of agathys, what each of these psions can do can be expanded by expending varying amounts of energy points to perform other abilities such as:

pyrokinetic: fire bolt, faerie fire, burning hands, hellish rebuke, fireball, conjure elemental(fire), fire shield, wall of fire and fire storm.

telekinetic: thunderclap, levitate, conjure barrage, fly, gravity sinkhole, bigby's hand, telekinesis, wall of force.

warding: mage armour, absorb elements, sanctuary, shield of faith, protection from energy, stoneskin, globe of invulnerability, wall of force.

(some of these are focusing more on the end results or specific effect than specific flavour of execution, a TK isn't going to literally conjure extra projectiles with conjure barrage or a warding psion might deal psychic damage with armour of agathys but those spells replicate them being able to launch a bunch of stuff all at once or create a defense that harms those who attack you in a particular way well.)

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

A pool of power points for encounter-powers? That sounds more like an update of the martial maneuvers of 3.5 Tome of Battle.

I suggest some pages for optional rules, for example displays (smell, sound, visual, headache) a psion without somatic or verbal components could use her powers in the middle of the crowd and nobody would realize. Let's imagine our PCs suffering an ambush by hidden lurks (rogues with psionic powers, from 3.5 complete psionic), or the PCs are investigating a murder in a meeting but the killer is a psion who is using her powers against other attendees.

Other optional rule is spending spell slots these turned power points to be used for metapsionic feats, for example.

 

[Remathilis]

Like a spellcaster that just uses spell points instead of spell slots?
And powers that replicate spells but are not.

That's basically all psionics ever was. From 3.5 onwards, they were pretty much just mages with a different tracking mechanic and unique (well mostly unique) list of powers. 4e used a slight variant on ADEU (no E, but PP that augment A) and Pathfinder has ignored psionics in favor of occult magic which uses spells to fill similar-ish niches. I find it a touch ironic both Paizo and WotC went down the spellcaster route, I guess KP is the only major company that could build a non spellcasting psionics system?

(I ask not having not followed the Deep Magic series so if they made a psionic spellcaster, we're three for three)

 

[mellored]

Cast a narrow list of thematic spells at-will that upcast as you level, but not as high as normal casters.
HD to amp spells (metamagic)
Points to cast spells that shouldn't be spammed (shield, cure wounds, Command). These also upcast as you level.

 Psion
1: Spend 1 point to cast a Psion spell.
2: spend HD to amp your spells.
3: Choose a subclass.
Level 5: All your Psionic spells are cast at 2nd level. They still cost 1 point to cast.
7: Choose a second subclass.
Level 11: All your Psionic spells are cast at 3rd level.
14: Choose a 3rd subclass.
Level 17: All your Psionic spells are cast at 4th level.

Pyrokinetic
Level 3: cast burning hands at-will.
Level 7: cast scorching ray at-will
Level 14: cast fireball at-will.
20: cast wall of fire at-will.

Telekinetic
Level 3: cast catapult at-will
Level 7: cast Levitate at-will
Level 14: cast Fly at-will.
Level 20: freedom of movement at-will.

Force shaper.
Level 3: cast magic missile at-will
Level 7: cast cloud of daggers at-will
Level 14: cast conjure barrage at-will. Does not require a component
Level 20: cast Otiluke's Resilient Sphere at-will

 

[Sword of Spirit]

Expanded Psionics Handbook (3.5e) works for me (power points, powers that are individual entities up to 9th-level like spells but different).

Ideally, I'd adjust it in one of two ways.

1) Add more at-will and encounter powers, but based around a 5e balance framework and otherwise stick close to 3.5e.

2) Do something more along the lines of the Mystic playtest (disciplines are suites of powers that you buy as a whole and can mess around flexibly with), but making sure the powers go all the way up to 9th-level abilities (astral projection, plane shifting, other major reality bending stuff, I'm not talking about how many dice are rolled for damage or healing) rather than the playtest version that was more of a half-caster as far as what their disciplines could accomplish.

Regardless of which route I took, the following are essential points.

-Power points are an essential component of acceptability for me, but fortunately that's one of the easiest things to house rule in.

-Subclasses must encompass the traditional disciplines (Clairsentience, Psychokenisis, Psychometabolism, Psychoportation, Telepathy, and I would take either 2e's Metapsionics or 3e's Metacreativity for the final one). I'm fine if they change it up a bit, such as by having each subclass encompass two of those disciplines, and have some features that let you lean into one or the other, as long as it provides some mechanical support for actually identifying as one of the traditional ones.

-No components involved in manifesting powers. I'm cool with 3e's displays to make it clear when you are manifesting a power as an alternative, although there ideally should be a way to suppress them since monsters aren't limited in their psionics in that way.

I have little interest in an entirely new take on it that goes beyond #2, because I thought it was fine in previous editions and if you want to do something different, make something different, don't co-opt D&D psionics for it.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Non-magical psions are easy, we have plenty of examples of such psychics from the real world. They just need expertise and other boost for their bluff skill, so that they can con people into believing that they have supernatural powers whilst they actually do not.