D&D (2024) What does Backward compatibility mean to you?

[Maxperson]

I don't put any stock in that sort of list or analysis, frankly. Overvaluing variant Human is one of the big reasons why.

It's +1s to stats that are incredibly overvalued. +1 more to hit is literally going to be 1 more hit every 20 attacks, which even for a PC with extra attack is going to on average be 1 time every 3-4 fights, assuming fights average 3 rounds. +1 more to AC is going to matter a bit more, depending on how many attacks, but the vast majority of the time it's just not going to matter at all. Nobody is going to notice the extra hits or misses. Or extra successful saves(which are even less frequent than the extra hit every 3-4 fights).

And that's if you're lucky enough turn an odd stat into an even one. A lot of the time you're just turning a 12 into a 13 or something.

On the other hand, feats will be used a whole lot more, having a large impact on the game, and actually be seen to be working.

 

[Parmandur]

It's +1s to stats that are incredibly overvalued. +1 more to hit is literally going to be 1 more hit every 20 attacks, which even for a PC with extra attack is going to on average be 1 time every 3-4 fights, assuming fights average 3 rounds. +1 more to AC is going to matter a bit more, depending on how many attacks, but the vast majority of the time it's just not going to matter at all. Nobody is going to notice the extra hits or misses. Or extra successful saves(which are even less frequent than the extra hit every 3-4 fights).

And that's if you're lucky enough turn an odd stat into an even one. A lot of the time you're just turning a 12 into a 13 or something.

On the other hand, feats will be used a whole lot more, having a large impact on the game, and actually be seen to be working.

They really are about the same in terms of real impact. To be perfectly honest, I think the Variant Human gets a bit of the short stick for the things it uses to replace the third ASI.

 

[Maxperson]

They really are about the same in terms of real impact. To be perfectly honest, I think the Variant Human gets a bit of the short stick for the things it uses to replace the third ASI.

Do you really think that 1 extra hit every 3-4 fights(6-8 at 1st to 4th level) is worth the same as +5 to initiative every fight, immunity to surprise while conscious, and prevention of advantage by unseen creatures?

That it's worth the ability to move and dash and then get +5 to damage if you moved at least 10 feet in a straight line?

That it's equal to advantage on perception and investigation checks to find secret doors, advantage to all saves vs traps, and the ability to travel quickly without perception penalty?

That a +1 is worth the ability to completely ignore fire resistance and do increased fire damage?

That it's worth more than being lucky?

Hell, that +1 isn't even worth the ability to accurately recall everything your PC has seen and heard for the last month.

 

[Yaarel]

If you did that work, then it wasn't backwards compatible. If the new version of Windows did the work for you, then it is backwards compatible.

It was more like I was able to get a hold of obscure tools, that with some juggling, was able to get the app to work.

Windows 10 did not do this by itself. But Microsoft (if I recall correctly) provided the obscure tools obscurely.

The breakthru was a tool that could create a virtual XP operating system inside the Windows 10 operating system. Then I could move the early app into the virtual environment, and from there move it to the normal Windows environment and delete the virtual XP. Luckily the app was able to work in the XP operating system.

 

[Maxperson]

It was more like I was able to get a hold of obscure tools, that with some juggling, was able to get the app to work.

Then that wasn't backwards compatible.

Windows 10 did not do this by itself. But Microsoft (if I recall correctly) provided the obscure tools obscurely.

Still not backwards compatible.

The breakthru was a tool that could create a virtual XP operating system inside the Windows 10 operating system. Then I could move the early app into the virtual environment, and from there move it to the normal Windows environment and delete the virtual XP. Luckily the app was able to work in the XP operating system.

If it was backwards compatible, you would not have needed to find a tool or move anything. The new Windows version would have just done everything for you and all you would have needed to do was to run the app. Backwards compatibility is a goal of a lot of programs that fail to achieve it.

 

[Parmandur]

Do you really think that 1 extra hit every 3-4 fights(6-8 at 1st to 4th level) is worth the same as +5 to initiative every fight, immunity to surprise while conscious, and prevention of advantage by unseen creatures?

That it's worth the ability to move and dash and then get +5 to damage if you moved at least 10 feet in a straight line?

That it's equal to advantage on perception and investigation checks to find secret doors, advantage to all saves vs traps, and the ability to travel quickly without perception penalty?

That a +1 is worth the ability to completely ignore fire resistance and do increased fire damage?

That it's worth more than being lucky?

Hell, that +1 isn't even worth the ability to accurately recall everything your PC has seen and heard for the last month.

I mean...yes, that's what I just said.

 

[Maxperson]

I mean...yes, that's what I just said.

Then I'm not sure what to say. The +1 is clearly not worth those things in any sense of the word worth. An extra few points of damage a fight and an extra hit ever 3-6 fights is just not even close to what those feats bring to the table. The math just doesn't back it up.

 

[Parmandur]

Then I'm not sure what to say. The +1 is clearly not worth those things in any sense of the word worth. An extra few points of damage a fight and an extra hit ever 3-6 fights is just not even close to what those feats bring to the table. The math just doesn't back it up.

All of those Feat effects are nice, amd as I said they are at least equivalent. But all Feat abilities are more situational and specific than bumping again attribute, which is always handy, repeatedly. Beng 5% better in one's weak spots is very nice. I've rolled all odd numbers for abilities and played a standard Human: getting +6 to attributes was much nicer than a Feat, and came up literally all the time.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Then I'm not sure what to say. The +1 is clearly not worth those things in any sense of the word worth. An extra few points of damage a fight and an extra hit ever 3-6 fights is just not even close to what those feats bring to the table. The math just doesn't back it up.

But the math only cares about damage, attack bonus, hit points, and AC, unfortunately. That's WotC's idea of "combat balance". From what I understand, they've basically told us that themselves.

 

[Parmandur]

But the math only cares about damage, attack bonus, hit points, and AC, unfortunately. That's WotC's idea of "combat balance". From what I understand, they've basically told us that themselves.

And, lo and behold...it has worked. Thatwhy they are keeping with the same essential system after 10 years and for the foreseeable future.