What does the paladin do when...

[Angcuru]

called shots are in Quintessential Fighter, IIRC. So they are a part of the D20 System, just not an "official" one.

and it is only an idiotic moron who only follows the 'offical' rules, 'just because'.


so, what would YOU do, blackshirt?

 

[MerakSpielman]

Now, now, Ang, watch the name-calling... Sometimes I think you lose your cool a bit too easily. Breath. Relax.

People don't use only the Core books "just because." They do it because it's easier than buying lots of books and expecting your players, who might not be as interested in new rules, to read and know them.


You probably should have mentioned what books were being used in the original post, so we could all come up with appropriate solutions. If you had mentioned the Quint books being available, the Called Shot would have come up a long time ago.

 

[blackshirt5]

so, what would YOU do, blackshirt?

I'm the DM. The demons answer the summoning only because I allow it. This situation is of no consequence to me.

 

[Angcuru]

If you had mentioned the Quint books being available, the Called Shot would have come up a long time ago.

As I said a bit earlier, I just stated that this was simply a situation. I never said you were restricted in your ideas, or even that you had to solve the problem as a D20 character. People were welcome to respond in whatever manner they felt was appropriate.

Seeing how you people are sticklers for details on what you are and are not allowed to do: don't you think you are taking rules a BIT seriously?

 

[Remathilis]

Greetings!

Wow! Elder-Basilisk my friend, you said pretty much exactly what I was thinking! I agree fully.

That said, on the occasions that I have encountered DM's that get a kick out of scenarios such as this, I can't help it--there's this sick, vicious, sarcastic side of me that wants to say, "Oh yeah? How 'bout this!" and proceed to just hammer the evil sorcerer to the floor. Then, take my dead wife's hair, and begin to strangle him with it. Then, roaring with rage, grab his stupid broken body, and leap fully into the demon pit, screaming in maniacal rage all the way down! My child dies, my wife dies, the sorcerer dies. Demonic hell is unleashed, and my paladin dies gloriously. Or, if he survives, he becomes and evil vicious bastard that proceeds to unleash his own hell of rape and slaughter upon the world! Yea!

I'm beginning to like this idea more and more, but maybe I'm just a wee bit jaded these days.

 

[Sejs]

Whirlwind Attack, and Grapple everybody! The sorcerer, your wife, the baby, the alter, that pendulum.. Everybody! Now that everyone's all nice and out of Catch 22 do-or-die situations, baby goes in off hand, LoH the wife so you and she can both can work over Mister I'm So Evil, who thanks to the wonderful world of Whirlwind Grapple just because your personal barrel-boy.

Alternative (that doesn't involve Whirlwind Grapple)..

Overrun your wife, who can either get out of your way (and out the way of the pendulum), or you can knock her aside (also getting her out of the way of the pendulum). Once past your wife, Bullrush the sorcerer the heck away from that pit, or grapple him, pin him, and take solace in the fact that he aint gonna be casting any spells unless they're without somatic components and have "One live baby that you can't do anything in particular to" or "One angry paladin" listed as the material components. Procede from there.

 

[Ukyo the undead]

Now for the question: What does the paladin, who is a disciple of the goddess of love and family, do in this circumstance?

Does he...

OR...

Does he slice of the mage's hand(from which the energy protrudes) at a timing to that the pendulum will swing away from the stone table, sparing his wife and fosaking his child while the ritual is completed, trusting that his army may be able to handle the demons?

Well I writed a big post answering this question, but since my computer shuted down, I going to be short.

Attack the mage, try to save the baby, pray for a miracle to save his wife.

This paladin is a defender of a goddess of family and love, and she would be probably LG(law = family, love= good), at worst NG.

So, as a a defenders of the goddess portfolio, he have to defend the Law and Good in this world. To do this, he must stop the ritual from happening, even if it means his family would be destroyed.

He must try to protect all families in the world from a dark future of chaos and pain, without place to love or the stability and refuge of a family.

Trying to save his wife instead of the principles his goddess protect and promote, would be an selfish( but undestandable) act, and subject to lose of paladin abilities and a needing to atone( if the paladin survive, anyway...).

 

[tonym]

It seems to be a no-win situation to me. The paladin can't realistically be expected to do three things at once, all in one round. He can only do so much.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

That was my thinking, too, Shark. When I said earlier that my paladin prays on round 1, then tries to disbelieve the 'illusion' on round 2, that was my goofy way of not-being-a-good-player to someone not-being-a-good-DM.


ME: "GAH! I have to decide who dies--my wife, or my baby?"

DM: "YES!"

ME: "But...but...but..."

DM: "Decide! NOW! Quickly!--or they BOTH die!"

ME: "I...I...I..."

DM: "DECIDE!"

Me: "I drink my potion of Bull Strength."



All that being said, I guess if the whole scenario made perfect sense based on past sessions, and if the DM was a good DM and all that, my paladin would kill the sorcerer, save the baby and stop the ritual.

TonyM

 

[SHARK]

Greetings!

LOL! Remathillis! That was pretty funny! Cynical and jaded seems to be the path that many DM's want their paladin players to go down, huh?

Tonym--indeed. I liked your post, too. I suppose, like you say, if the campaign sessions previous made such a situation reasonable, then it might be somewhat *ok* but if such is the case, and it seems from what the original poster said it was merely a hypothetical scenario, it seems to boil down to a grim, paladin-gets-screwed situation. Either his wife dies, his child dies, or the town dies; or the town is saved, but his wife and child die, or maybe some other permutation, all of which means that the paladin is screwed, one way or the other. In the bargain, of course, the paladin's god must find some way to strip the paladin of his powers, too. That also seems to the next train down the pike, so to speak. I don't generally like such situations, because they have all the appearances of purposely screwing the player's character.

Now, on another point, don't get me wrong--I like a certain degree of realism, and consequences, and ruthless villains and so on. But to be honest, if such a scenario does come down, the DM has to expect that the player may not have the character respond well. I tend to play such characters with an eye towards realism, rather than meta-gaming, so consequently my earlier scenario--facetiously presented--but still decidedly a potential response, because the *character* may indeed respond in such manner--whether that is actually the best course of action for the character isn't the point--and such a course of action may be quite inconvenient for the DM, the rest of the party, and any potential campaign effects, if you see what I'm saying. Such grim, cynical no-win situations can often provoke frustrated responses of ruthless despair and fatalism.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

 

[Ace]

The whole sceanrio is a little odd to me.

Why would a LAWFUL good paladin go it alone against an epic sorcerer anyway

Lawful means orderly and Good people tend to have friends and allies

Heck if I had to attack a Sorcerers tower to save the world I would bring a lot of friends, hundreds of them

By the time he got to the the Sorcerers tower he would have been destroyed by epic spells anyway, at least without help

IMC it would look like this

Talon-- Paladin 30
I have to go, she (The sun goddess and most family oriented) has called me. Some Sorcerer is trying open an abbysal gate and they have my wife and child

Kern- Paladin 20 head of the Black Gate Order
You aren't going alone. I'll send a hundred of my men with Wolves and Falcons too. I'll send out the horn call we will have 10,000 or so men there in a matter of hours

Itherien the Archmage Wiz20/Archmage 5/Epic 5
Take this. <hands Talon a package> I will call the council and some Element Masters too. We should have 100 Wizards of the seventh tier or greater in a few hours (Wiz 15+)

Lady Sora--
I will call the Followers of the Way. Will 500 do?

Tilb the Shadow
Another apocolypse? A little early eh? Ah well I have some friends to send as well

An'akier
Many of the faithful have been gathered. We shall send tens of hundreds if they are needed

and so on through a lot of people and organizations. I mean failure means possibly the end of the world so I figure a certain measure of cooperation is likely

OK there will be beuracratic infighting among the lower levels but who cares they are nothing but targets anyway for that sort of thing

Back to the scenario

Paladin Arrives.

Bad situation unfurls

Talon uses quickened forcewall item to save baby- rescues wife with extra partial action and move than attacks Sorcerer with full attacks 4 of em at some obscene attack bonus

Sorcerer retaliates with zappy stuff-- does only minor damage due to defense buff layering

Paladin kills Sorcerer next round

If by some horrible chance the Paladin fails, well there is an army ready to stop the Wizard and close the blasted gate

Never go it alone!