What effect might the death of these gods have?

jerichothebard

First Post
The following gods have died or been cast down as a part of the backstory of my campaign:

The God of Trickery, Luck, Gambling and Love
The Goddess of Hearth, Home, Protection and Craft
The Goddess of Time, Arcane Magic and Good Fortune
The God of War in all its aspects


What possible effects might this have on the mortal world, as their portfolio goes unfilled? I'm not looking for other beings to ascend - it's assumed that their place in the cosmos is simply, for the moment, empty. I'm more looking for a list of things that are going wrong which will serve as foreshadowing for a later quest to raise the Seven back to their thrones.

As an example, the God of Death and Law has been cast down, and now the dead are beginning to walk with increasing frequency.

Also, as the God of Plants and Animals has died, crops are beginning to be more difficult to grow, even with druidic magic.

thanks!
 

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For the goddess of hearth, why not look at the Greco-Roman legends of when Persephone was abducted by Hades? I'd think that'd be a good starting place.

For the trickery and luck god, maybe there is no luck, so eliminate critical successes and failures. Love would be the more tricky part...maybe people become unable to feel that depth of emotion...they still "like" each other, but the passion is snuffed out.

For time and arcane magic, maybe develop areas of wild magic, or places where time functions differently.

As for war, I'm drawing a blank. Does the god govern anything else? Perhaps weapons only do half-damage now?

Sounds like quite a interesting plot hook and a good set up for an epic tale.
 

LostSoul

Adventurer
Neat idea... Here's some quick thoughts:

jerichothebard said:
The God of Trickery, Luck, Gambling and Love

Well, the gambling houses have closed up (the brothels are still running strong). People get fair deals, no more con-men (they have begun to reform). There is no passion to love, it's more of a legal/economic decision. And pretty much everything goes as expected - no odd co-incidences, no one has their dog die, wife leave 'em, and house burn down on the same day, no one wins the lottery (exepct the really old person who had been playing for years and was finally due), etc.

jerichothebard said:
The Goddess of Hearth, Home, Protection and Craft

Places and items fall apart. Kids move out of home and live in public areas. Things "just aren't built like they used to be." Nobody cares for their elders. People live in big communal houses.

jerichothebard said:
The Goddess of Time, Arcane Magic and Good Fortune

Arcane magic is weakened. There is no luck but bad luck - what can go wrong, will go wrong. Any kind of magic building falls apart. Magically enhanced "beauties" go ugly. People stop aging or age at a very slow rate. People move around slow - the rivers run slow, ships take forever to get anywhere. The seasons drag on.

jerichothebard said:
The God of War in all its aspects

Um... no wars? I guess people would meet and have treaties all the time. Economic powerhouses displace militaristic powers. Kings and queens are deposed and merchant princes are set up. The entire feudal system collapses and new nations are created. The peasants gain economic and political power.
 

Luthien Greyspear

First Post
jerichothebard said:
The following gods have died or been cast down as a part of the backstory of my campaign:

The God of Trickery, Luck, Gambling and Love
The Goddess of Hearth, Home, Protection and Craft
The Goddess of Time, Arcane Magic and Good Fortune
The God of War in all its aspects


What possible effects might this have on the mortal world, as their portfolio goes unfilled? I'm not looking for other beings to ascend - it's assumed that their place in the cosmos is simply, for the moment, empty. I'm more looking for a list of things that are going wrong which will serve as foreshadowing for a later quest to raise the Seven back to their thrones.

As an example, the God of Death and Law has been cast down, and now the dead are beginning to walk with increasing frequency.

Also, as the God of Plants and Animals has died, crops are beginning to be more difficult to grow, even with druidic magic.

thanks!

Something I would consider is what alignment these powers were. That would have a huge impact on how the world perceives their loss (whether consciously or subconsciously). Most gods are considered in terms of alignment first, then portfolio. If I'm Lawful Good, I'm not going to be a devout worshipper of Olidamarra, no matter how much fun he is at parties. Nor will I worship Hextor, no matter how much I think my Chaotic Evil enemies need to be exterminated. Alignment tells you more about how these powers handled their responsibilities than anything else.

For instance, if the God of War were originally Lawful, and governed over the jucicious application of force against one's enemies (a strategist and tactician, and a leader of armies kind of god), then maybe all fighting in the world has become random and unfocused. People go overboard and slaughter their enemies, even over the smallest slights, because the Power that used to whisper in their ears and tell them when to reserve their strength and fury isn't there anymore. On the other hand, if he used to be Chaotic, the world may have become safer, with fewer random outbreaks of violence on frontiers and national borders.

I'm assuming the God of Luck and Trickery was Chaotic, and that the Goddess of the Hearth is Good, probably Lawful Good. How about the other two? There's a lot of leeway you can have with War or Magic. Both are used for good and evil, lawful and chaotic purposes. Look at the breadth of alignment between gods like Athena, Ares, Tempus, Torm, Hextor, Heironeous, and the like. All of these are War gods. Likewise, look at the differences between Mystra, Mystryl, Hecate, Isis, Vecna, Boccob...
 

RedWick

First Post
With those kinds of power gaps to fill, look at which of the remaining Gods might have their eye on the now vacant portfolios. They're bound to start making motions to snatch up as much power as they could (assuming that your Gods behave like that). That means that there's a lot of potential for subtle, political/religious scheming and plotting. It also means that whatever domains the remaining Gods have control over will start coming to the forefront.

As the Powers start trying to take control, they'll put their own particular spin on whatever domain they're going after. A God of Madness going after war will cause people to go insane and just start attacking everybody in sight. A God of Lawfulness and Order going after Arcane Magic might cause all arcane spells to have an added somantic component if there wasn't one before or maybe an increased casting time due to more a ritualized method of casting.
 

Nyeshet

First Post
jerichothebard said:
The following gods have died or been cast down as a part of the backstory of my campaign:

The God of Trickery, Luck, Gambling and Love
The Goddess of Hearth, Home, Protection and Craft
The Goddess of Time, Arcane Magic and Good Fortune
The God of War in all its aspects

What possible effects might this have on the mortal world, as their portfolio goes unfilled? I'm not looking for other beings to ascend - it's assumed that their place in the cosmos is simply, for the moment, empty. I'm more looking for a list of things that are going wrong which will serve as foreshadowing for a later quest to raise the Seven back to their thrones.
Okay, I'll admit I am a little confused. Why is Love and Trickery in the same portfolio? Why are Hearth and Craft in the same portfolio? And Arcane Magic and Good Fortune together? The latter should be with Luck. Also, why do you refer to a quest to raise the seven when only four are mentioned (unless the two examples you give are in fact two of three other cast down / dead deities). As for how I would deal with it:


The God of Trickery, Luck, Gambling and Love

Chance is less common. (Critical hits require rolling to confirm, and the confirmation must also be within the critical range. Or Critical hits do not work at all.) Trickery is less successful (-5 to all Bluff, Disguise, etc checks).

I cannot fully comment on Love as some might mean Passion, some might mean Infatuation, and some might mean Compassion, and each has its own affects for being lessened.
- Decreasing Passion, and everything is less intense. Rage requires a Will save to successfully enter, and if the save fails the Rage is still used up. Everyone gains a +4 vs fear effects that would send them into a panic (the more extreme form of fear).
- Decreased Infatutation, and romantic love becomes mere interest. Marriages - if based on love in your campaign setting - are now more a matter of affectionate friendship than actual love.
- Decreased Compassion, and everyone is more cold hearted, less empathic, more readily committing harsh acts.

The Goddess of Hearth, Home, Protection and Craft

Hearth has long been a symbol of family unity, so perhaps with its lessening families are more nuclear than extended, and in regions where families were already nuclear the entire family structure crumbles. In such a situation children might be raised communally or in (semi-) official 'orphanages' and marriage is less common. This might tie into the first deity (Love), such that marriages are more symbolic than anything else, and perhaps children are less common overall as a result.

Protection lessened is more difficult, but you might impose a -2 penalty to all ACs in the game. This represents the fact that nothing is truly protected anymore, so all hits are a little more likely. Objects should be treated as having 2 less points of hardness for the same reason. This makes sundering more common, which ties in nicely with the final deity (war).

Craft decreased: all craft checks to make a new item have a -5 penalty, and all repair checks have a -2 penalty. Items are slowly wearing away and falling apart. The skill to replace or even fix them seems muted somehow. Great smiths now seem just barely above average, and average smiths can barely perform tasks they mastered as apprentices. Prices for crafted items double as sources dwindle. Fewer enter the trade as the years required to build up any real skill is so much longer now than it used to be.

The Goddess of Time, Arcane Magic and Good Fortune

Good Fortune lessens: Everyone takes a -1 to all saves. Everyone seems to be a little worse off, a little more likely to suffer whenever chance of harm occurs.

Time and Arcane Magic: regions exist where one or the other (or both) are wild. In some areas time seems to pass faster than outside, or slower. In some areas magic is muted (-1d4 to caster level for effects) or empowered (+1d4 to caster level). Overall, all casters cast as if one level lower, and magic that affects time or aging is a level higher (meaning that time stop is basically epic). Overall, creatures are aging a little faster (1.5x or 2x normal).

The God of War in all its aspects

Weapons, as crafted items, are less common. As items used in defense, they are also more brittle. Of course, armor itself is also affected in the same manner - and thus less useful and less common. As armor and weapons become less common and less useful war becomes less common - as both sides eventually fall to fisticuffs and wrestling. Perhaps war becomes more a matter of politics and symbolic (wrestling) games. If you tie in the cold hearted way people may be feeling / thinking (due to decrease in passion / compassion) then suddenly gladiator type games may decide the fate of city-states, but the spectators would watch with dispassionate interest, not feeling much excitement at the spectacle. I imagine that harsh / cold hearted political intrigue would take the place of warfare, perhaps, with gladiators and sport-type 'combat' exhibitions being the tokens that shift the balance slightly one way or the other, another aspect of many in a vast game of intrigue.

- - - -

Note that the final results will be far worse than what I have written. In the end a synthesis of all the results must be taken into account. The core of a society is the family unit. With that dissolving society itself may have trouble staying together. With crafts, weaponry, etc falling apart and difficult to repair, I imagine that civilization is slowly falling apart. Magic cannot aid it (as arcane magic is weakened and often wild, and divine magic is less available as there are less deities to draw upon, if any). Political intrigue can only slow the inevitable. And with fewer children being born every year, it is possible that civilized races may slowly be fading towards extinction.

This has the potential to be a great Dark / Grim world.
 

Nyeshet

First Post
I restate my case, after further consideration:

You have a dying world on your hands.

Basically the following six (of seven) deities are gone:
The God of Trickery, Luck, Gambling and Love
The Goddess of Hearth, Home, Protection and Craft
The Goddess of Time, Arcane Magic and Good Fortune
The God of War in all its aspects
The God of Death and Law
The God of Plant and Animals

If the power of a portfolio is tied to its deity, as your posts implies, then the lack of a deity will do all I priorly suggested and more. A quick overview of what my prior suggestions entail, when combined with the other two deities, and we have:


-1 to all caster levels (for magical effects, due to arcane magic fading)
+1 to the DC of all saves (good fortune fading)
+2 to Craft checks to Repair items, +5 to Craft checks to Create new items.
-2 to Hardness of all items (min 0) that might be used to defend - such as weapons and armor
-2 to all stabilization checks (life weakened in several areas)
-2 to all ACs (due to lowering protection of all) - hits are more common
- all Crits must be rolled to confirm, and the confirmation must also be a critical (due to lowered luck/ good fortune/ protection / etc)
- undead walk the lands, all who die have a chance of rising as zombies if not buried in consecrated grounds (death weakening)
- law and order collapse (law weakening)
- warfare all but ceases (war weakening)
- children as less common (hearth / home weakening)
- kingdoms, cities, etc are slowly dissoluding (hearth / home weakening)
- as food becomes scarse humans become semi-nomadic in their search for sustanence (aids dissolusion of kingdoms, cities, etc)
- as crafted items become scarse their cost rises dramatically, and fewer enter the trade; food is more important, so many abandon the trade entirely (aids in collapse of kingdoms, cities, etc)
- barter replaces coinage, with bartered items being more worthwhile if they are a tool or food - especially if they are food
- regions of wild magic and even wild time exist, magic is overall weaker and less dependable, creatures age at half again to double the normal rate due to lack of a deity to 'put the breaks' on the flow of time: the universe seems to be rushing towards its end, making every second count
- as love fades, so too does passion (will save needed to enter a rage, use ki strike, turn undead, etc). creatures have a bonus (+4) to resist any affect that might cause them to enter a high emotional / passionate state (rage, despair, panic, etc)
- as love fades, so too does compassion. people more readily act harshly and in a cold hearted manner, seeking what is best for (themselves, or whomever they might have a (slight) care for). the harsh manner of the reigning lords further drives others from kingdoms / cities / etc, further speeding the dissolution of civiliztion.

- with fewer births, swifter aging, more ability to be hit (-2 to AC), less usefulness found in armor or weaponry (assuming either can be found - let alone bought), the population is slowly but surely falling. not just sentient beings either, but also plant and animal life, and note that undead are increasingly more common. It seems the entire world is slowly but surely becoming a place of undeath.

What is the seventh deity, by the way?

Sun perhaps? In that case the sun shines wanely upon the world. Only during its height (within a couple hours of noon) is it bright enough to harm undead, and they receive a +4 to their saves against sunlight. Creature with light sensitivity are not affected except around noon (as already mentioned), and twilight conditions exist from sunrise until around 10pm and from 2pm until sunset. Creatures without low light vision or dark vision are at a disadvantage. Also, if Fire is part of the Sun deity's portfolio, then fires burn softer (min damage, so a campfire is 2 fire dmg, always) and creatures with fire vulnerability are only hurt half again as much, and those with resistance can withstand half again as much as typical (15 instead of 10, 7 instead of 5, etc). The world is colder, winter lasts longer and the snow is slower to melt in the summer.

Wind and Water perhaps? Then maybe weather is stagnant, rain rare, strong winds just as rare. Forests are dying unless next to seas or rivers, plains are becoming deserts, etc.

So, what is the seventh deity? At this point it almost doesn't matter. The world is on a collision course towards the absolute collapse of civilization and the domination of undeath over what little remains of the living, but you probably have a few decades before it gets that bad.
 

jerichothebard

First Post
Nyeshet said:
- with fewer births, swifter aging, more ability to be hit (-2 to AC), less usefulness found in armor or weaponry (assuming either can be found - let alone bought), the population is slowly but surely falling. not just sentient beings either, but also plant and animal life, and note that undead are increasingly more common. It seems the entire world is slowly but surely becoming a place of undeath.

What is the seventh deity, by the way?

Sun perhaps? In that case the sun shines wanely upon the world.


Exactly - though the sun shines quite brightly, as he is the only one who didn't fall. Though, that certainly brings to mind a thought - perhaps he is shining too brightly, which accounts for the presence and expansion of a desert where there wouldn't normally be one, which also ties in nicely with the fall of the nature deity... hmm.

I REALLY like the idea of shorter lifespans as the effect of the goddess of time's fall... that's nice. It also helps explain why there aren't any elves left who can tell you from first-hand experience about the fall of the gods... A glaring hole in my timeline and plotting, actually.

I think divination magic is also going to start failing. (after all, if you are a goddess of time and magic, you pretty much get divination as a default...) Additionally, I just remembered that the campaign has included an adventure that sent the party through some weird time-travel stuff...



One thing I forgot to mention is that the fall of the six gods happened around 1300 years before present game time. I envision these consequences as having been slowly developing over the last century, as the "inertia" (for lack of a better term) provided by the presence of the gods finally fails. After all, in the lifespan of a god, 13 centuries really isn't much. I have some time to start foreshadowing, too, as the group is involved in another save-the-world quest right now and this is more suited for high levels anyway

So, what is the seventh deity? At this point it almost doesn't matter. The world is on a collision course towards the absolute collapse of civilization and the domination of undeath over what little remains of the living, but you probably have a few decades before it gets that bad.
Barring the influence/interference of the heroes, of course... ;)

Luthien Greyspear said:
or instance, if the God of War were originally Lawful, and governed over the jucicious application of force against one's enemies (a strategist and tactician, and a leader of armies kind of god), then maybe all fighting in the world has become random and unfocused. People go overboard and slaughter their enemies, even over the smallest slights, because the Power that used to whisper in their ears and tell them when to reserve their strength and fury isn't there anymore. On the other hand, if he used to be Chaotic, the world may have become safer, with fewer random outbreaks of violence on frontiers and national borders.

The god of war was originally a three-fold god, encompassing the three different types - and alignments - of war: conquest, defensive, and righteous. He was actually a being of three faces, one CE, one N, and one LG. Kind of like worshipping the Three Fates as a single being with three aspects, I guess.

The portfolio of Righteous war has sort of been assumed by the sun god, mostly by default. More to the point, the order of paladins has made it their job to conduct righteous war in his name, against both the orcs and the rising dead.

I am operating on the premise that the orcs, who have been increasingly agressive in the last half-century, are actually being led by an avatar of the CE aspect; He is growing in power and will eventually ascend to the godhood - without the other aspects, possibly. Which could be bad.

That war in itself could actually be the effect I'm looking for, in truth.




So, to recap:

Death - the dead walk!
Nature - crops failing, desert expansion
Time/Arcane - lifespans are getting shorter, small little eddies in time are cropping up, divination spells are becoming more difficult (spellcraft check DC 15+spell level?)
War - the orcs have resurrected or found an avatar of the conquest aspect, and are successfully making war in the southlands.



Sun - his ascendence is also contributing to the advance of the desert, and failure of the crops.

That leaves the final two - Tickery/Love, and Hearth/Craft.

Some good ideas have been presented, but anybody have more thoughts?


A thought: arguably, Hearth could include an aspect of love, itself. I have no objection to overlapping portfolios, and since the gods are dead, it doesn't much matter for the players, really... It's all just background filler at the moment.



Thanks all!
 

Thornir Alekeg

Albatross!
For the God of Trickery, Luck, Gambling and Love, have things relegated to luck in the game world become completely weird.

A coin flip always turns up heads.

At the gambling houses, some games continuously end as a draw or push, while others the house always wins and at others, the same seat wins every time.

When drawing straws, the straws keep breaking so there is no longer a short straw.

A spell or magic item that causes a random effect, no longer works randomly. Either the item works in a regular, repeating pattern of effects, or it just keeps having the same effect as the last time it was used.
 

Miln

Explorer
Thornir Alekeg said:
For the God of Trickery, Luck, Gambling and Love, have things relegated to luck in the game world become completely weird.

A coin flip always turns up heads.

At the gambling houses, some games continuously end as a draw or push, while others the house always wins and at others, the same seat wins every time.

When drawing straws, the straws keep breaking so there is no longer a short straw.

A spell or magic item that causes a random effect, no longer works randomly. Either the item works in a regular, repeating pattern of effects, or it just keeps having the same effect as the last time it was used.

that's good stuff there
 

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