What feats are ESSENTIAL

[cdsaint]

The 2 feats I'm fondest of are improved trip and knockdown. This way, say a 2nd level human fighter can make an attack, if he hits and does 10 or more points of damage he gets a free trip attack. If he manages to trip his opponent, then he gets a free follow up attack.

If your fighter has a good strength, and uses a 2 handed weapon, chances of doing 10 points of damage are good.

If you're having trouble hitting your opponent, just make a trip attack. If you trip him, his AC drops by 4 for as long as he's prone. His attacks also suffer a -4 penalty while he's prone.

This works well against most opponents, 4 legged (or more) or large creatures, or worse yet LARGE 4 LEGGED creatures being the exceptions.

If I recall correctly, there is a feat that eliminates the penalties for fighting prone. I plan on taking it for my fighter in the future, but in the meantime it could cause some problems for him.

In any event, I think this feat combination is great. It allows an extra attack, lowers your opponents AC, and his chances to hit. It just doesn't get any better than that at low levels.

Chris

 

[Victim]

Power Attack is simply an incredible feat for fighters. I used to disagree, being in the "it lowers your average damage" camp. Then I saw another character use it. And use it he did! In many cases, he'd drop his entire base attack into power attack and dish out gobs of damage.

It's very reasonable for a 10th level fighter to have an attack bonus of +20 or more, especially after buffs from his teammates like Greater Magic Weapon are taken into account. We'll say a +20 attack bonus.

Now let's look at some monsters. Hydras can be up to CR 15, yet they have a mere 15 AC. The dreaded Girallon has a 16 AC. CR 9 Nobe Salamanders have an 18 AC. CR 13 Beholders have a 20 AC, making power attack a useful option even for the outclassed fighter. The CR 11 Devourer has an 18 AC. T-Rex has a 14. Dire bears and tigers don't go above 17 AC. The CR 9 Greater Earth Elemental has a 20 AC. CR 12 Frost Wyrms have 18 AC. The Kraken has a 20 AC. Mind Flayers have 15 AC. Purple Worms have 19 AC. Most of the big mean hulking brute monsters tend not to have such great ACs. Power Attack is beneficial in almost all of these cases, and the a few more levels or better stats or gear would make a tremendous difference in the number of creatures against which power attack is useful (I saw lots of AC 22).

Power Attack won't be so useful against buffed up NPCs, outsiders, or dragons, but against lots of monsters it will help, especially against brutes or minion monsters.

Also, at higher levels, Haste tends to see more common usage, especially if the wizard learns mass haste or the fighter has boots of speed. With Haste, 2 things happen. First of all, iterative attacks become less important. Power attack can truly mess up secondary and tertiary attacks. With Haste, the importance of that second attack drops off, since you get a new attack at a higher bonus that doesn't restrict movement. Therefore, you can power attack for higher amounts since the damage fraction from iterative attacks is reduced, so you can base your attacks more off the the first attack hitting on a one. I don't think I'm very clear.

Two, the bonuses and penalties from power attack last until your next action. With Haste, you can do tricky things like only power attack on some of your attacks. For example, a fighter launches his normal full attack so his secondary attacks can hit and do damage. Then he takes his partial action from haste and launches another attack, this time power attacking for the optimal single hit amount.

Iron Will is also a good feat, as is Improved Initiative. However, in many cases, it will be a good idea to delay so slower people can get area or buffing spells off before you enter melee.

 

[Malin Genie]

...Persistent Haste,

Touch range, not Personal. So no Persistent Haste (thank goodness - Persistent Spell is broken enough as is...)

...and a bard with Improved Initiative can run away and hope for the best- at high levels, a bard's best hope is for a draw in battle

A 16th level bard (conservatively Cha 24 with magic items) can force you to make a Will DC 38 (Take 10 +28 Perform check with 19 ranks +7 Cha +2 MW instrument) save or be fascinated.

Following which you are subject to a DC 20 suggestion effect, and if that fails, the Bard can segue into the following:

haste, then fanfare (stunned 1d4 rounds with no saving throw) followed up with 2d4 Dominate Persons (each requiring a Will save of minimum DC 21; with Greater Spell Focus (Enchantment), Armour of Command and a Cloak of Charisma +6, assuming base Cha of 16 +4 stat raises =20 the DC goes up to a very respectable 28...) Rinse and repeat if necessary, although the Bard might eventually have to resort to Charm Monster (DC 20 minimum, probably DC 27) or even Charm Person (DC 18 minimum, probably DC 25.)

You are now the Bard's b*tch.

 

[Caliban]

The 2 feats I'm fondest of are improved trip and knockdown. This way, say a 2nd level human fighter can make an attack, if he hits and does 10 or more points of damage he gets a free trip attack. If he manages to trip his opponent, then he gets a free follow up attack.

Check the Sword and Fist errata: you don't get the free attack from Improved Trip when you use Knockdown to trip them. It's basically an upgrade to Improved Trip (attack+trip instead of trip+attack).

Knockdown is still a damn good feat though.

 

[Caliban]

What feats are essential for a high level fighter -- that is, without them he would be handicapped and underpowered?

I am thinking Power Attack...

What do you think?

Mike

Power Attack is good, but you have to know when not to use it. (I have a 6th level fighter who just took a level of wizard so he can do a True Strike+Power Attack combo with his battleaxe. )

I would say the standard fighter feats are: Weapon Focus+Specialization+Improved Crit+Power Critical. You really know how to use your weapon.

Dodge+Mobility+Expertise is a good set of feats for increasing your AC.

 

[Rashak Mani]

There is one big group that may lose more than gain from Power Attack: Barbarian/Fighters and Two Hand Weapon users.

Power Attack for Single Hand Weapons is great because they are usually lower damage the risk of missing isnt so bad... BUT Raging Barbarians may easily at 8th level (my case) do d12+13 (thirteen) damage. If I power attack 5 points... I am risking that 19.5 average damage in order to increase 5 points only. A 25% risk reduction of hitting.

For 15 AC creatures that maybe fine... but anything normal around 19-21 AC will be only for 12th or higher level. Using combat calculators Power Attack for good only for 15 AC in my case.

Power Attack isnt on my list....

 

[River]

First of Iron will is a no brainer. The first time your 10th level fighter is killed in 2 rounds by a third level cleric with a hold person spell and a mace you learn that lesson quick.....

Generally a third level cleric has an excellent chance of holding a 10th level fighter, and coup de grace is an UGLY thing.

After that you get luck of heroes.....

Then you get leadership and hire a Cohorot to follow you around and cast dispell magic on you.....

River

 

[Darklone]

edited: wrong post.

 

[Rashak Mani]

After that you get luck of heroes.....

Then you get leadership and hire a Cohorot to follow you around and cast dispell magic on you.....

River

HAHA good one on the cohort .. luck of heroes is a feat you have to choose at first lvl ?

 

[Ziggy]

Touch range, not Personal. So no Persistent Haste (thank goodness - Persistent Spell is broken enough as is...)

Minor nitpick: Close range, not Touch

Still no Persistent Haste though.

.Ziggy