What feats are ESSENTIAL

[Geoff Watson]

Okay, let me ask it a different way: Suppose a fighter took only Skill Focus for every feat. Would such a fighter be crippled in a high level game as far as combat goes?

Sure, but that's not what you originally asked. (He can't, anyway. Skill Focus isn't a Fighter bonus feat).


My real question is: are feats really that powerful, and how much do they affect game balance? The most bonus you can get from a feat is +2, because you can't stack them, so a fighter with no feats would only be two levels behind a fighter with feats, as far as numbers go. Also feats are mostly applicable only in a specific circumstance, so while the feated-fighter has an edge in that particular circumstance, the rest of the time he has no edge over the non-feated-fighter.

Feats matter. They aren't huge individually, but they matter. They usually give either a small bonus most of the time, or a big bonus occassionally.
They could be up to six levels behind numbers-wise (Iron Will is the equivalent of six levels of Will save advancement), and there are things you can get from feats that you can't get any other way.

The only difference between a Warrior-20 and a Fighter-20 is eleven feats and 21 hit points... and those are considered to be worth 1 CR all together.

The CR system works really badly for classed characters, as the classes were balanced for player use, rather than as opponents.

Is a 20th level Warrior really an even match for a 19th level fighter?

Maybe. Does it matter? That's not what CR is for anyway.

Geoff.

 

[Rashak Mani]

Since Feat choices depend pretty much on if your an archer, 2wpn, shield or 2 hand wpn. Things like power attack become useful but not ESSENTIAL !

Overall many of the Feats presented are important... Impr Init. in my opinion unless your an archer isnt that important. Most groundpounder fighters wont be able to get to enemy spellcaster in the first round. Even if you do bash him well... he will make a 5ft step and then use a simple Hold Person... charm Person and your done.

IMHO these 2 defensive feats are the Essential:

Close Quarters Combat and Iron Will

CLOSE QUARTERS FIGHTING (SnF) basically guarantees a reasonable chance of getting out of a Grab... and your 10 feats with Whirlwind attack arent very useful if a creature has you in his mouth/claws. My Barbarian/Fighter 4/4 was almost killed by a simple Dire Bear with improved Grab.

The other Big menace for Fighter types is their lousy and usually very low Will Save. IRON WILL might seem a paltry 10% chance... but it might be your only chance not to get paralyzed/stuck/held for most of the combat. Most groups have efficient Clerics and so forth... but one day your going to watch the combat from the sidelines... like a beautiful statue held ... thats when Iron Will could have made a small difference. (I do recommend taking Cloak of Protection too... this feat alone isnt going to make you immune to magic)

Taking these two feats your only "weak" point will be Reflex Saves and losing too many Hitpoints too fast... and lack of mobility if your a literal Full Plate Tank. Fighters are combat monsters but can so easily be stopped sometimes...

 

[Don21584]

I would also have to say Alertness with the crappiness of the Fighter skill selection and the high usefulness of Listen and Spot. Improved Initiative is good as well, but other than those two, it depends on the kind of Fighter you'd be making.

 

[Christian]

Power Attack is really weak for a strong fighter, they'll only take it to get Cleave(which is very good); using Power Attack will nearly always lessen their average damage.

Some folks have already mentioned this, but I think it's worthwhile to expand on. Power Attack reduces your average damage when you need a mid- or high-range roll to hit. When you need only a four, taking a -2 and needing to roll a six, but doing +2 damage, is usually a plus. And if you have a +24 attack roll and are attacking an AC 20 opponent, you might as well use five points of power attack ...

BAB for fighters starts to really outstrip typical AC numbers at high levels, so this isn't an unusual situation. Especially if you can't unload a full attack on someone, using PA on your one attack can drastically increase your average damage. (Ask anyone in B.A.D.D. about the Power Attack strategy for dragons ... )

Plus, it's good for beating DR at low levels.

 

[Dr. Zoom]

I just ran my players thru an encounter with a young adult black dragon. I buffed its strength up to 24 with a wand from its hoard, and power attacked every physical attack for +10 damage. Its bite did a whopping 2d6+17 points of damage, and the claws, wings, and tail were not bad, either. I think it only missed twice during the encounter, which lasted about 10 rounds.

 

[warpmind]

I agree with Power Attack. It's a very good feat, specially for mid-level characters and beyond. But I think Expertise is an excellent feat too (I take it whenever I can, unfortunately most fighters I play haven't got Int 13), and Spring Attack is also desirable.

 

[the Jester]

No feats are essential but there are some that are better than others.

For a high level fighter, Iron Will can be a lifesaver. It isn't as good until higher levels, but when it does come into play... well, a fighter's base will save isn't pretty. Power attack and specialization are two of the ways a fighter can increase his damage, and that's really good when you know you can hit. Once you have multiple attacks Quickdraw becomes surprisingly good (especially for a two-weapon fighter or ranger). Improved initiative is especially good for rogues (sneak attack twice before your enemy can even move if you surprise them); spring attack is fantastic; but nothing's essential.

 

[Ruvion]

Essential feats are...

...the one's that you need to complete the concept you have in mind for your fighter character...

However, one need to only take a look at the MM (and like the posters above agree) and find that many monsters take Alertness, Improved Initiative, Power Attack, and Cleave for a reason. Of course, the above are one's that give the most bang for the bucks for a creature that has limited feat number and short lifespan within a campaign (not to mention some flavour feats like Toughness that certain monsters take), but I digress.

 

[Bonedagger]

I'm surprised so few have said Improved Initiative. Winning the initiative is always of high value no matter what class you are.

Especially when it's class vs class. "Fighter vs. Spellcaster". "A rouge trying to catch someone flatfooted". Etc.

 

[frankthedm]

Winning Init can be helpful, but for a tank going second may be preferable so a full attack can be dished out right away.

I really gotta say I think power attack is important for a high level melee fighter in the [slightly overmagiced] standard 3E game.

At the high levels 16+ those ac's will not be too hard to hit in the first place with +16 from your level; +8 from your STR [inherent & enhance bonuses with level up increases;+5 from your weapon an a possible moral bonus from a bard or spell of some sort., and one level of sorc means a true strike of frightening potential. You can funnel the extra bonuses you don't need to hit into the power attack.

This is even more useful when you HAVE to go to the enemy. I.E. no full attack. If you must charge a foe to get to him, power attack helps off set the reduced damage potentialof not having your full attacks. And most smart foes are NOT going to be letting you have your full attack unless they want their full attack[Giants & dragons].

if you Have mobility the getting away from a foe costs you your full attack so power attack once again helps with your damage output.

If you have spring attack then you are NOT going to be able to combine it with a full attack but neither is your foe [unless he has gnarly reach] so power attack once again to get some more damage.

If you are charging with a lance from a mount power attack is SICK, There is no way to get your full attacks and each point of power attack means 2 more points of damage It will not be dificult to cause a massive damage save vs a soft foe
To hit
+16 bab,+8 from your 26 str,+3 from a +3 lance,+2 from charging,-10 from a power attack = +19 to hit
Damage
average damage from lance 4, +3 from the plus, +8 from STR, +10 from power attack =25 points BEFORE being doubling to the lethal 50.

Oh BTW If you have a level of sorserer & true strike this WILL cause a massive damage save if you hit

If you enjoy haste, take your partial action first, partial charge the target, power attacking to your hearts desire then take your full attack unhindered by power attack [ I do believe the general consensus is this is your next action as defined by power attack]

SRD
Power Attack [General]
Prerequisite: Str 13+.
Benefit: On the character's action, before making attack rolls for a round, the character may choose to subtract a number from all melee attack rolls and add the same number to all melee damage rolls. This number may not exceed the character's base attack bonus. The penalty on attacks and bonus on damage applies until the character's next action.

and nail your foe, throwing in a dash of Power Attack if your target is a soft one