D&D (2024) What form might subclasses take in 1DnD? (+)

[Lanefan]

Mis-read the thread title and briefly thought it was asking about sunglasses in 1dnd...

 

[Weiley31]

I'm....I'm even not quite sure really. On one hand, I'm hoping that Classes are the next One D&D UA playtest material that arrives. On the other, maybe trying to add all the classes in, and not breaking it up, would be too much.

The ones that will be interesting, at least the ones I can't wait to check out, will be the Fighter, Warlock, and Sorcerer. Will the Fighter start integrating the Battlemaster and its Combat Maneuvers into its chassis? Will this somehow be the return of the previously favored Next Sorcerer? Will Eldritch Blast get eaten up in the void and Patrons will now have to scramble, like chickens without heads, wondering what they'll now give their favored Warlocks?

Will we somehow get Psionics? (Calm down calm down everybody, it was a joke. And a bitter one at that.)

It's kinda crazy to think what we'll start seeing from now till the end of 2023.

 

[SakanaSensei]

Err... not really.

While the idea was something I would have liked back then at the beginning of 5e, changing the levels at which subclasses grant their features pretty much guarantees to break compatibility with previous supplements, which is what they claim they want to keep. All previous supplements subclasses would not work with 2024 PHB characters. If the original number of features was already 5, maybe minor adjustments could be enough, but definitely not for those classes with a different number.

If every class had, at a baseline, something they received at every level without having a subclass at all, then you could have a subclass for, let’s say Fighter and Paladin. We’ll call it a Knight. At level 3, you can take your level three Fighter feature if you’re a Fighter, your level three Paladin feature if you’re a Paladin, or your Knight feature.

All old material would still work under that paradigm because old subclass levels would work, while simultaneously opening up new design space.

 

[Li Shenron]

Ok, I see what you mean... to fill all levels of a base class where they normally gain a subclass feature, with a new base class feature. And to establish a rule that at each of those levels you can choose either the base class feature or the subclass feature.

That would make new things possible: (a) not have any subclass at all, (b) have a subclass only partially , (c) have features from multiple subclasses, (d) have a subclass from another class. Obviously, specific choices would need to be validated case-by-case (for instance, you couldn't choose a feature that improves a previous one that you didn't take it, and you couldn't choose something that simply doesn't work with your base class).

It's an interesting idea.

 

[Tonguez]

No subclasses just lots and lots of mix and match abilities

 

[SakanaSensei]

Ok, I see what you mean... to fill all levels of a base class where they normally gain a subclass feature, with a new base class feature. And to establish a rule that at each of those levels you can choose either the base class feature or the subclass feature.

That would make new things possible: (a) not have any subclass at all, (b) have a subclass only partially , (c) have features from multiple subclasses, (d) have a subclass from another class. Obviously, specific choices would need to be validated case-by-case (for instance, you couldn't choose a feature that improves a previous one that you didn't take it, and you couldn't choose something that simply doesn't work with your base class).

It's an interesting idea.

I just want to see my old material, official and not, to not get invalidated. I simultaneously hope they make some changes, like allowing all classes to be concept complete at 1.

If they don’t go the direction I’m mentioning (I doubt they will), I may have to fiddle with the idea myself once we start seeing what they’re thinking of doing.

 

[Malmuria]

Do subclasses really make characters feel different from one another? I.e., how much of the thematic specificity of a devotion/ancients/vengeance paladin comes from their specific channel divinity mechanics, and how much comes from their subclass tenets as a guide to roleplay?

 

[DeviousQuail]

My main beefs with 5e subclasses are 1) they don't start from 1st level, which impacts things like multiclassing, and 2) different wizard "specialists" all use the same spell list.

So my biggest hope is for subclasses from level 1 and Diviners who are distinct from Evokers in a meaningful way at the table.

I like the approach of allowing PHB wizards to treat all spells of their school as always prepared and then they can prepare an additional Int mod spells from other schools. You just have to make sure to allow divination spells from a few other sources so that divination wizards get at least 20. Divination is underrepresented between PHB, Xanathar's, and Tasha's.

 

[SakanaSensei]

Do subclasses really make characters feel different from one another? I.e., how much of the thematic specificity of a devotion/ancients/vengeance paladin comes from their specific channel divinity mechanics, and how much comes from their subclass tenets as a guide to roleplay?

I think they should feel quite different, and in some cases do. The Psi Warrior and Battlemaster feel very different from the Samurai, but most Wizard subclasses may as well come with quotation marks around their name. Part of why I posted the thread is because I think 3PP options tend to do a better job of being evocative.

 

[Minigiant]

My main beefs with 5e subclasses are 1) they don't start from 1st level, which impacts things like multiclassing, and 2) different wizard "specialists" all use the same spell list.

So my biggest hope is for subclasses from level 1 and Diviners who are distinct from Evokers in a meaningful way at the table.

The wizard subclasses won't be so different because their spell list is so big. The spell list is too powerful to allow much tweaking.

Only if wizard players agree to a smaller list could more power be put into their specialists.