What formulas?

MerricB

Eternal Optimist
Supporter
Are you sure that there will be formulas (ok, formulae) to create monsters in 4e?

That there will be tables with ranges that the stats should be within: yes.

But formulas that they need to get right and allow the John Coopers of this world to attack them over them? I'm not so sure about that.
 

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Everything I have seen on monster creation implies that monsters will have expected ranges of certain stats, but that monster creation will be something more like it was in 1e or 2e- the dm pretty well makes 'em up. I have gotten a strong impression that the designers are trying to stay away from the complicated "edit with a fine toothed comb" type of monster creation that is fun for a numbers cruncher but sucks if you just want a quick monster.
 


MerricB said:
Are you sure that there will be formulas (ok, formulae) to create monsters in 4e?

That there will be tables with ranges that the stats should be within: yes.

But formulas that they need to get right and allow the John Coopers of this world to attack them over them? I'm not so sure about that.
I really hope that those formulas are gone... not that I ever used them while running 3rd edition...
 

Yeah, my best guess is that they used a lot of complicated math that the average DM isn't going to be understand. They probably figured out the most fun percentage chance to hit by examining levels 4-14 in 3rd Edition as well as playtested with different numbers (30% chance to hit the average enemy, 40%, 50%, etc).

Then, once they had a duration of combat that felt right and a percent chance to hit that was the most fun for the players, they figured out how many hitpoints enemies needed in order to survive the damage the players were doing for exactly how long they wanted the battle to last.

This required precisely setting the hitpoints of the enemies rather that rolling them from hit dice. It also required removing abilities like DR which make predicting the average damage per round of PCs very difficult when some of them might bypass DR while others don't. Also, some PCs are doing their damage with one attack, others with 3. DR makes it much worse for one of them.

Then on top of that, you have to keep in mind that the average encounter has 4 or 5 enemies...and that each of them likely has a different role. So that the damage that one enemy does makes up for lower damage by one of the others, etc.

So, given that most DMs are not going to understand or want to do this math in order to create a new creature, it is likely we'll get a table with the results of the math done for us. You'll likely see a chart with average numbers for each role of enemies. However, I still think that each monster will be created individually. It's a matter of knowing what the "correct" numbers are for that level and role and then modifying the individual creature to be more unique. However, that part I expect to be more art than science. You just have to know that dropping a monsters AC by 10 points and upping its damage by 10 is not an equal tradeoff. That's the sort of thing you just have to know the system really well to do, though. I anticipate that using stock monsters will be fairly standard for most DMs anyways.
 

4E seems to be like a game where I will have time to consider combat strategies instead of wasting tons of time fixing up stat blocks. Thumbs up on that.
 

Absolutely. This is what I'm most excited about. I just hope it delivers on its promise.

It'll be interesting to see how the way they're setting the bench mark for encounter difficulty interacts with making strategy easier to implement.
 


the Jester said:
Everything I have seen on monster creation implies that monsters will have expected ranges of certain stats, but that monster creation will be something more like it was in 1e or 2e- the dm pretty well makes 'em up.
I don't think that it will be much like AD&D, for the reason you give - there will be clear rules linking monster stat ranges to monster level difficulty. And this is what is central to rules for monster design.

Neither edition of AD&D had such rules, did it? 1st ed had its monster level rules (from I to X, depending on XP value of the monster) but those XP values seemed to have no very precise correlation to monster difficulty, and there were no rules correlating monster level to PC level.
 

Hjorimir said:
I much prefer DMing as an art as opposed to a science anyway.

The worrisome thing about that is that a lot of DMs have basic math skills, but no artistic talent whatsoever. When they get creative, Rocks fall and everyone dies.
 

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