What game Could "Be" D&D, Culturally?

[Enevhar Aldarion]

Again , it was popular enough with the same groups that gave D&D its strong start, so I think that's a strong assertion without any obvious cause.

In pockets of the US. D&D was known nationally and internationally. And like others already pointed out, no D&D means no Traveller because the creators of Traveller were influenced by D&D, no matter how different the mechanics are.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Maybe En Garde! there it is listed as an early competitor, though I think that D&D hit at a time when the pump was primed for it, with Tolkien, and other sort of pseudo-nature fantasy stuff of the 70's.

En Garde! suffers from the narrowness problem even more than Traveller; its about Musketeer style adventures and dueling and not really anything else. And unlike Traveller's mechanics, its not easily adapted to anything outside its narrow scope.

 

[Thomas Shey]

In pockets of the US. D&D was known nationally and internationally. And like others already pointed out, no D&D means no Traveller because the creators of Traveller were influenced by D&D, no matter how different the mechanics are.

Many of the international fans were also SF fans and wargamers, so again, without some indication my position here is obviously wrong, all this is is a case of dueling judgment.

And I've addressed the second sentence at least three times now.

 

[Jaeger]

This assumes something holy about a D20 resolution that was going to be superior to the D6 die pool they already had. Unless your premise is they were going to specifically be doing a Paizo, I don't see that as following.

Your reading too much into things here.

Nothing holy about the d20 system at all. It's just Pure pragmatism.

Easier to flip people to your new game if it is close to what they are used to.

 

[Aldarc]

Your reading too much into things here.

Nothing holy about the d20 system at all. It's just Pure pragmatism.

Easier to flip people to your new game if it is close to what they are used to.

..so don't bother innovating or trying anything new at all. Your message in favor of "pure pragmatism" is clear: Why bother trying to flip anyone at all? There is nothing closer to "what they are used to" than D&D," ergo stick to D&D.

 

[Jaeger]

..so don't bother innovating or trying anything new at all. Your message in favor of "pure pragmatism" is clear: Why bother trying to flip anyone at all? There is nothing closer to "what they are used to" than D&D," ergo stick to D&D.

In the context of the historically revisionist hypothetical situation that never happened, that I posited at the end of post #104...

If TSR went under in 2000 - and you wanted to grab as much market share as possible from the power vacuum they left:

Then, Yes. As much as possible make your game like D&D.

Then Profit.

And I say this as someone who's RPG experience has been almost entirely that of playing and running games not D&D.

Because D&D has established itself as the market leader. The majority of the hobby plays nothing but D&D. I like to try out different systems and even homebrew my own. I am an outlier.

The rest of the hobby likes their D&D the way that they like it. If there are some system issues, you can fix them. But don't change anything! Keep it just like it was before, only better.

If TSR went under in 2000 - and WEG wanted to grab as much market share as possible from the power vacuum they left, and they said:

"Hey try this new fantasy game we call Swords and Sorcery! It uses our d6 system..."

The majority of the hobby: "...d6 system?" "That's not D&D. I play D&D." "Hey, look at that; game company X has made a game called Fortresses and Fangs that looks and works almost exactly like D&D... I'll give that a try."

That is the reality of our hobby.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Your reading too much into things here.

Nothing holy about the d20 system at all. It's just Pure pragmatism.

Easier to flip people to your new game if it is close to what they are used to.

So you essentially are assuming they'd be doing a Paizo.

 

[StreamMonk]

IMHO: Empire of the Petal Throne, TFT, RuneQuest, DragonQuest, Traveller, and Arduin (among many others - including some from across the pond) all have legitimate claims to having been poised to fill such a hypothetical vacuum.

 

[Thomas Shey]

IMHO: Empire of the Petal Throne, TFT, RuneQuest, DragonQuest, Traveller, and Arduin (among many others - including some from across the pond) all have legitimate claims to having been poised to fill such a hypothetical vacuum.

I suspect EPT and probably RQ as-was were too exotic in their extent settings to make that work. With Traveller its always the question of whether an SF game, especially one with the kind of merchants and mercenaries focus Trav had could do it (which doesn't mean it couldn't, just that you can question it). Arduin wasn't really a standalone game system that early. DQ--maybe. It was more complicated than OD&D, but perhaps not any more so than AD&D.

 

[RuinousPowers]

I would agree with Star Wars or some kind of superhero rpg. As a dark horse, some kind of squad based military game based off the roles from games like Battlefield or TF2.