What good are insta-kill spells and monsters ?

[Shard O'Glase]

thread has evolved a bit but I'll give my 2 cents anyway.

save or dies including many things like dominate and hold erk me a bit. I don't like things that bypass the hp system, and the save or dies do. save for 1/2 damage from firebalss and the like use saves to work within the hp system and I'm for them.

On the other hand lets face it for a d4hp class 90% of the encounters if you don't have an absurd con is save or die every round you fight until 7th+level and even after that a ton of enoers stay save or die throughout the entire career of the d4er. And blah blah they can prepare with all their zingy spells, and stuff but lets face it having monsters that do so much damage that your hps are meaningless at the d4 range bypasses the point of the hp system as well.

 

[diaglo]

I trust my DMs. They can.

and the reverse can be said to be true as well.

the referee trusts his players. they aren't there to wreck the game. they are there to have fun.

 

[d4]

the referee trusts his players. they aren't there to wreck the game. they are there to have fun.

exactly. and some players don't have fun when their characters die.

 

[MerakSpielman]

exactly. and some players don't have fun when their characters die.

But is the feeling that your character can die important to you? I'd imagine it must be, otherwise you woulndn't have to bother with annoying mechanics like hit points.

 

[Ogre Mage]

Insta-lethal effects

I always thought that insta-death effects were there to give pause to high-level characters. To force them to think about defense and acknowledge their own mortality. It you take insta-kill out of the game, I would argue that high-level characters (12+), assuming they have average equipment for their level, have very little to fear.

That said, while "random" deaths might be realistic I find that they don't make for a very fun game. DMs should for the most part only arm the BBEG or a specifically designed "major" encounter with an insta-death effect. When "instant death" is just randomly thrown into random encounters the fun of the game goes down. The exception to this might be very high level games (16+) where I argue that anything is fair game.

If the DM is using instant-death effects at low levels, s/he should be thrown out the window.

 

[d4]

But is the feeling that your character can die important to you?

not at all. in fact, that feeling detracts from my enjoyment of the game.

I'd imagine it must be, otherwise you woulndn't have to bother with annoying mechanics like hit points.

i love the damage save mechanic from M&M (now appearing in Unearthed Arcana, from what i hear).

i love things like Action Points / Force Points / Hero Points / etc.; things that can help mitigate bad luck.

i think the lack of such a mechanic in core D&D is a huge flaw in the design of the system.

 

[d20Dwarf]

Not sure if this has been brought up, but all instant kill abilities drop a character to -1 and dying in my game. There's a bodak in an adventure I wrote, and it killed a party member before the adventure even got going. That's when I instituted my new rule..it was ridiculous. They aren't fun if they instantly slay a character.

 

[Hjorimir]

I've been DMing a long, long time (too long really). My experience is that when you run a soft campaign where characters never (or rarely) face death there is a distinct lack of excitement or respect for their accomplishments. In retrospect, since I adopted a more vicious attitude (mind you, I don't actually try to kill characters) the players have shown a greater propensity to be thoughtful of their actions and appreciative of their victories. This has proven to be a more fulfilling game on both sides of the screen for us.

 

[silentspace]

But is the feeling that your character can die important to you? I'd imagine it must be, otherwise you woulndn't have to bother with annoying mechanics like hit points.

Right! If there's no danger, where's the suspense? In action movies (we're talking action movies, not romance movies, right?), doesn't the possibility of death mean drama? Or perhaps 'cinematic' means "no drama" to some?

 

[MarauderX]

Right! If there's no danger, where's the suspense? In action movies (we're talking action movies, not romance movies, right?), doesn't the possibility of death mean drama? Or perhaps 'cinematic' means "no drama" to some?

Agreed... but what if the main character (your PC) gets tagged by a lightning bolt outta nowhere? Not so much fun, and I can't trust as many DMs as PirateCat to judge the difference for me.