What happened to the story?

[diaglo]

Not a bad idea at all.

it is one i have been pushing for a very long time.

and one i have for the latest editions since their playtesting stage.

i never joke about D&D.

and when i have time and time again talked about creating a Complete Idiot's Guide to d02 Roleplaying. i meant it.

luckily Bill S. and Rich B. are doing just that in April. i hope.

 

[eris404]

So, what elements of plot do you enjoy? What RPG sources do you find have the best ideas in them for using in your game? And am I wrong that there is not enough story talk or is it just too difficult to include on boards?

First, no, you're not wrong. I used to see a lot more threads that discussed more story or flavor detail oriented parts of the game. I still see things like 101 Taverns pop up from time to time, though, and I really like those threads even if I don't post in them often.

I think my favorite thing to read and create are NPC motivations. The plot can be standard fantasy, but if the villain has an interesting motivation and background, it makes even a cliched, overused plot seem fresh.

Lately, I really, really love to buy books that are very detailed lists or descriptions of small areas, unique items or interesting NPCs. Some of these have plot hooks, but I find that with enough description, the plot hooks naturally develop.

 

[JoeGKushner]

First, no, you're not wrong. I used to see a lot more threads that discussed more story or flavor detail oriented parts of the game. I still see things like 101 Taverns pop up from time to time, though, and I really like those threads even if I don't post in them often.

I think my favorite thing to read and create are NPC motivations. The plot can be standard fantasy, but if the villain has an interesting motivation and background, it makes even a cliched, overused plot seem fresh.

Lately, I really, really love to buy books that are very detailed lists or descriptions of small areas, unique items or interesting NPCs. Some of these have plot hooks, but I find that with enough description, the plot hooks naturally develop.

For that last bit, Ronin Arts has you covered. I mentioned it because i've got a few of them and they really are handy bits to have around when you don't feel think trying to think up a new description for something. The 101 series I believe... I have a few of the PDF's and the limited print version, and the Bad Axe Games print version. Good stuff!

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

I whole-heartedly agree. I used to love to read examples of play (like the one in the 2E PHB) and 3E would benefit from a lot more of those in every section of the rule books.

Yeah, I was rather disappointed to see the sample dungeon and example of play dropped from the 3.5 DMG, particularly given its linkage to the 1E DMG.

Heck, I basically taught myself how to play and DM from the examples of play in the pink box Basic rulebook and the 1E DMG.

 

[S'mon]

Stories are what you and your players make, not what the game naturally produces.

Well, that's what Gygax says - stories emerge from play (or not). Of course you can have games that are designed to produce stories naturally - eg Ron Edwards and his Story Now! Narrativist games. I'm a bit middle-of-the-road on this myself. There seems no harm in setting things up so as to _encourage_ the emergence of a compelling narrative, without positing that as the sole purpose of play (which I don't think works too well in D&D as written).

 

[The Shaman]

One thing I always used to like in the old Judges Guild setting products was the list of rumours/legends which did not necessarily tie into anything that was published other than using names from the setting and which could give huge numbers of potential hooks.

Example:

"Debienna the amazon is searching for the Helm of the Heartstone a helmet of telepathy stolen by a zombie"

Lots of hooks - how did the helm get its name?, do the players help Debienna?, was the zombie being used by an evil cleric or a necromancer?, etc

This was one of the many things I like(d) about Judges Guild products! I still make up dozens of rumors that players may find - some are red herrings, others deep history for the campaign.

Even the little one or two line town descriptions on the Wilderlands map contained all sorts of potential hooks, like, "Why is Laranthax, a LE elf, the ruler of a NG human village?" Answering that question became my adventure as soon as the PCs arrived.

 

[Endur]

RTTOE thread on MonteCook.com boards

I think Monte's Forum that discusses RTTOE is one of the best story forums out there.

Tons of advice on how to run the NPCs in that module.

I am shocked that there aren't any other story forums on the web that are dedicated to a single module.

http://p222.ezboard.com/fokayyourturnfrm17

(Players stay OUT, GMs only)

 

[RFisher]

So, what elements of plot do you enjoy? What RPG sources do you find have the best ideas in them for using in your game?

My favorite thing is setting up mysteries that could have several possible answers & watching the players guessing which is correct & slowly uncovering clues to the truth.

Although I hate having to write multiple versions of backstories with different amounts of truth to them. (I like the effect, I just hate doing it. Keeping different versions consistent--or properly inconsistent--as it's evolving.)

I love the occasional situation in which the truth ends up being very different from what it seems at first.

I love when solving one mystery reveals another, bigger mystery.

I love the unexpected solutions the players come up with that makes the stories of our games so much better than anything I could've written by myself.

 

[Crothian]

Stories are what you and your players make, not what the game naturally produces. The rules, IMO, are the province of the game companies, and the story is the thing that's all mine.

YMMV.

Then if the story is the responsibility of the people playing that shouldn't the books say that somewhere? It seems there that there is an underlying assumption that anyone who picks up D&D will automtaically know that he has to come up with the story. And even if he figures that part out, there is also nothign to help him improve his story. No examples of what might make good stories or what some different styles are. The books are about rules. The message boards have also becoem about rules. There are a few plot threads floating around GD but for the most part the threads are not about plot or story or anything useful like it.

 

[Doug McCrae]

It seems there that there is an underlying assumption that anyone who picks up D&D will automtaically know that he has to come up with the story.

If the story comes from the actions of the players and GM how could you be playing DnD and not come up with a story?

Granted that story might be something along the lines of 'Peregrine the paladin, Anthrax the dwarf and Joe Boom the wizard kill all the orcs in the Catacombs of Erflin' but it's still a story.