What happened to the story?

[Crothian]

If the story comes from the actions of the players and GM how could you be playing DnD and not come up with a story?

Granted that story might be something along the lines of 'Peregrine the paladin, Anthrax the dwarf and Joe Boom the wizard kill all the orcs in the Catacombs of Erflin' but it's still a story.

Then what of improving the story? If we can't help to stumble into the story surely then there must be books on improving it?

 

[MonsterMash]

This was one of the many things I like(d) about Judges Guild products! I still make up dozens of rumors that players may find - some are red herrings, others deep history for the campaign.

Even the little one or two line town descriptions on the Wilderlands map contained all sorts of potential hooks, like, "Why is Laranthax, a LE elf, the ruler of a NG human village?" Answering that question became my adventure as soon as the PCs arrived.

Always glad to find another JG fan, I hope you're enjoying the revised products too.

 

[philreed]

And even if he figures that part out, there is also nothign to help him improve his story. No examples of what might make good stories or what some different styles are. The books are about rules.

Try the old DM Design Kit. A great tool.

http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=1055&SRC=EnWorld

 

[The_Universe]

Then if the story is the responsibility of the people playing that shouldn't the books say that somewhere? It seems there that there is an underlying assumption that anyone who picks up D&D will automtaically know that he has to come up with the story. And even if he figures that part out, there is also nothign to help him improve his story. No examples of what might make good stories or what some different styles are. The books are about rules. The message boards have also becoem about rules. There are a few plot threads floating around GD but for the most part the threads are not about plot or story or anything useful like it.

As a friend of mine (who is far less enamored of the narrative aspects of RPGs) once said, "I don't care a whit about the story. I'm playing a game, and incidentally playing a role. If I want to imagine myself as part of an epic narrative, I'll read a book."

While that certainly wouldn't be satisfying for me (and indeed my games are fairly deep on the story end) the idea here is that the game is *not* necessarily a tool for creating a story. It can be a wonderful tool for doing so, but it must not ALWAYS be so.

If you want to create a story, and you don't care if you're ripping off from a published source (as any "help" from a game book would be), why not read a real book? Watch a movie? TV? Comics? RPG books are hardly one-stop-shops for literary drama.

as before, YMMV.

 

[Crothian]

If you want to create a story, and you don't care if you're ripping off from a published source (as any "help" from a game book would be), why not read a real book? Watch a movie? TV? Comics? RPG books are hardly one-stop-shops for literary drama.

But they should be a one stop shop for role playing, right? So, if there is story in role playing shouldn't that be in the books? Or maybe the books should tell people to get the sotry elsewhere, something, anything.

 

[MerricB]

See, story hour is the antithesis of what I want. They're long, detailed, drawn out stories with lots of background and assumptions. I'm looking for one sentence to one paragraph situations or backgrounds. Even evocative names. I know Expeditious Retreat Press was asking for submissions like this a while back. I wonder what happened to them...

Open the DMG 3.5e, and turn to page 44: One hundred adventure ideas.
Open Races of Stone and turn to page 191: One hundred adventure ideas.
Open Races of the Wild and turn to page 191: One hundred adventure ideas.
Open Frostburn and turn to page 198: Twenty frostfell adventure ideas.

Are they what you're looking for?

Cheers!

 

[MerricB]

Here's the thing: anyone who complains that Wizards don't put out adventures has somehow managed to miss the vast quantities of adventures that are currently available. Dungeon Magazine has 36 new adventures per year. The RPGA (funded by Wizards) put out... ooh... a lot of adventures each year. If I just counted the LG adventures I could play last year, I think I get to a figure around 34. (18 core, 8 regional, 8 metaregional). Then there are the Legacy of the Green Regent games, and the Mark of Heroes campaign, and the free adventures that Wizard publishes online (12 a year)...

Now, is story important in these adventures? Absolutely. Not in all of them (there are a few LGR and Dungeon adventures that really boil down to "kill some monsters, take their stuff"), but most of the adventures pay attention to the motivations of the villains, the situation, how thing might develop, and so forth.

Probably the biggest example of story and campaign building in the last year or two was the first Dungeon "Adventure Path". The adventures took the PCs from 1st to 20th level, and had recurring characters, plot threads, and so forth. (So did Wizards original Adventure Path).

Instead of a book discussing the techniques, we get plenty of examples of how it can be done.

However, apart from these examples, the Eberron Campaign Setting has a section that discusses plot structure, story and pacing, recurring characters and the like. The Eberron modules give an example of how an Eberron campaign can play - with linked plot elements, recurring villains, and similar - and I rather hope the DMG II also covers these elements.

Note that the 3.5e DMG has a section on Maintaining a Campaign which discusses some of these story elements. (page 130).

There's a lot of material out there already, and I haven't even delved into non-Wizards products!

Cheers!

 

[Wormwood]

Story? If you mean the stuff in the boxed text, than I make sure to read it every time.

 

[Rel]

However, apart from these examples, the Eberron Campaign Setting has a section that discusses plot structure, story and pacing, recurring characters and the like. The Eberron modules give an example of how an Eberron campaign can play - with linked plot elements, recurring villains, and similar - and I rather hope the DMG II also covers these elements.

I'll note also that in the "gazeteer" section of the ECS where it talks about each country there are half a dozen or so adventure ideas for that country.

 

[Andre]

Amid all the crunch out there, products designed to help with story design tend to get lost. Here's one I'm reading now: Insidiae by Troll Lord Games. I finally gave up trying to read it straight through - now I keep pen and paper handy to take notes as I go. Lots of good ideas.