What I absolutely love about 4th edition thus far


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ebenmckay said:
Hi everyone. Long-time gamer, first time poster.

I don't know if I agree entirely with the above statement. I recall (from a long-ago 4e preview) an on-the-fly situation where the player had his character slide under a table during a tavern brawl and kick the table out from under a couple of drunks who were fighting atop it. I think the DM ruled it a Str based attack against their Reflex defenses. To me that sounds like an impromptu trip attack that doesn't require a "power" to do so. Sure it might not do any damage (falling maybe?), but it gets the job done. My apologies if this point was made in a previous thread.

In that vein, I can see all sorts of special moves pulled off without any per-encounter limitations or class power slots being used up.
Oh yes, that is true (as far as we know). But apparently, this is in the DMG. It is not a default option that a player can pick up in the PHB. He has to come up with it on its own. Tripping was explicitly mentioned in the 3E PHB. ;) In a way, he can describe what he is going to do, but the DM picks what rule mechanics will represent this. In 3E, you don't have to describe, you just say "I trip".
 


hong said:
Well, except for that levels thing, anyway.
And the classes. And the Wealth By Level.

Expanding to monsters:
And the inconsistent gains from HD. And the lack of clear relationship between HD, CR and ECL, or (if existing) caster level. The arbitrary ability scores and natural armor values.
And the special abilities granted to many monsters that no regular PC could ever acquire.
 

Destil said:
Not even that. I'd hope Aragorn's player has 'For Gondor' written on his sheet. 3.0 made this distinction in (of all places) skills... if 4E doesn't mention that you can & should rename and re image your powers to fit the PC then The Rouse will have some `splanin` to do.
I've not sure these two ideas are related. I don't see why said player can't write "For Gondor" on his 4e sheet. And I don't recall 3e having explict statements that players can rename or reimage their powers. I think they are good ideas, but I'm not sure how 3e and 4e differ in this case, even if 4e doesn't explicitly suggest to players to rename or re-brand powers.

I'm particularly puzzled in how 3.0 "made this distinction" in skills. The granularity may have decreased, but the large majority of the skills in 3e are in 4e. Is 3e's distinctions in the presence of explicit Profession, Knowledge and Perform skills? I can see how they might appeal, although I agree with the 4e design team's decision to remove them from the core rules' set of skills. If they are there primarily to add distinction and flavor, but aren't planned as significant game mechanical elements, I think they should be present in the character background, rather than in the core skills trained list.
 

Derren said:
And imo that cheapens the game. The story isn't any more about normal persons who become famous with what they do, but about some mutants with superpowers.
Only if the DM chooses to make it that way.

But they've really lowered the bar on mutants and superpowers, haven't they? Every two-bit fighter with an At-Will Cleave and a daily Brute Strike is calling himself a mutant superhero these days. :\
 

FireLance said:
Only if the DM chooses to make it that way.

But they've really lowered the bar on mutants and superpowers, haven't they? Every two-bit fighter with an At-Will Cleave and a daily Brute Strike is calling himself a mutant superhero these days. :\

+ Healing surges/Second wind
+ Encounter powers
+ Feats
+ Destiny
 

FireLance said:
But they've really lowered the bar on mutants and superpowers, haven't they? Every two-bit fighter with an At-Will Cleave and a daily Brute Strike is calling himself a mutant superhero these days. :\
Oh yes.

Back in the days, you weren't a superhero when you couldn't fly, spin webs, or at least jump a few dozens meters without breaking a leg. And we had to swim against the stream through liquid kryptonite just to get to school and back. And we liked it!

4E is really the Heroesitation of D&D!
 


Derren said:
+ Healing surges/Second wind
+ Encounter powers
+ Feats
These are not unique to the PCs.

The orc Warrior's Surge ability is basically a second wind that activates in conjunction with an attack.

Encounter powers are really not unique to the PCs.

Feats are simply not called out in the monster stat block.

I'll grant that monsters and NPCs are not detailed to the same level as the PCs, and may not be built according to the same rules, but this only means that the PCs are different and possibly unique (see Destiny, below). However, "different" or "unique" does not mean "mutant", and is a far cry from "superhero".

+ Destiny
This does make the PCs unique, but it's more of a fantasy trope than a superhero trait.
 

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