What I absolutely love about 4th edition thus far

[Toras]

Getting back to the topic as originially stated, while I do appreciate a modular design, I'm wondering how much is actually modular. No class is required admittedly, and from a design perspective I like that.

Will there be rules for reducing/eliminating healing surges, and other gritty options. If there is a modular design what do you think will be essential?

And on an unrelated note, Destiny is really starting to get up my nose. I hate fate, the idea that things are laid out for the heroes in advance. It negates free will and lessens the inherent value of the decision to be a hero, to strive and overcome.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Getting back to the topic as originially stated, while I do appreciate a modular design, I'm wondering how much is actually modular. No class is required admittedly, and from a design perspective I like that.

Will there be rules for reducing/eliminating healing surges, and other gritty options. If there is a modular design what do you think will be essential?

A lot is still unclear on the modularity. Since powers are examples of "exception-based" design, they are a big module you can adjust or remove. Replacing normal powers with 3E syle vancian magic doesn't look so simple, on the other hand...

Healing Surges seem to be adjustable, but there are some "interfaces" you have to keep in mind, like healing surge based powers. (Lay on Hands, Healing Word).

And on an unrelated note, Destiny is really starting to get up my nose. I hate fate, the idea that things are laid out for the heroes in advance. It negates free will and lessens the inherent value of the decision to be a hero, to strive and overcome.

Well, players definitely chose their Epic Destiny for them self, so maybe it's not as bad. And on earlier levels, destiny just means that you still have to do something, but no one knows that it is, so it's not exactly... predetermined...

 

[AndrewRogue]

I'm actually starting to wonder. I realize that, these days, I have a lot more manga/comic book inspiration then I used to, but even looking back, I have trouble thinking of many fantasy stories (and I used to be a pretty avid reader), either contemporary or more along the lines of medieval lit, where the heroes were just "normal" people.

Hell, even 3.X had the distinction with NPC and PC classes.

Any chance of clarifying exactly what books and stuff actually make up this tradition?

 

[Rex Blunder]

I have trouble thinking of many fantasy stories (and I used to be a pretty avid reader), either contemporary or more along the lines of medieval lit, where the heroes were just "normal" people. [...] Any chance of clarifying exactly what books and stuff actually make up this tradition?

I can think of a couple:

-Billy Batson is just an ordinary newspaper boy until the wizard Shazam gives him the wisdom of Solomon; the strength of Hercules; the stamina of Atlas; the power of Zeus; the courage of Achilles; and the speed of Mercury.

-Peter Parker is an ordinary high school student until bitten by a radioactive spider during a science demonstration.

-Bruce Wayne is an ordinary boy until he sees his parents murdered by a mugger, and decides to become a vigilante.

 

[PrecociousApprentice]

Those are all great examples Rex. I would also like to point out that all of them are characters that were normal in their background, but not when the stories start. The normalness of these characters is fluff, not game play. Not that you said anything to the contrary, but these could easily be used for evidence for the need of 0th level, the death of bildungsroman, etc....

I guess superman and spiderman could be said to have started as normal in the movies, but the comics started with butt kicking, then gave background AFAIK.

 

[Rex Blunder]

I guess Superman was normal until his dad fired him off to Earth, but that stretches it even for me

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Rincewind started off as a wizard that couldn't cast spells.. Wait, he had one of the 8 spells of creation in his mind, even as we meet him the first time.

Two-Flowers is an ordinary man. I might give you that, but even he had his chest from the start we met him, and other magical trinkets (Kobold Camera).

Mustrum Ridcully is a wizard since the first time we ever saw him.

Samual Vimes has no superpowers, but is already an high-ranking member of the Watch with some experience.

Corporal Carot has royal blood and was raised by Dwarves, and had a strong build. Doesn't work either.

Tiffany Aching is an ordinary girl that becomes a Witch. except, she isn't ordinary. She thinks "the big thoughts" right from the start. She is special the day we meet her.

Expanding the Scope:

Luke Skywalker. He was always a Jedi, but at least the first time we meet him, he didn't know. Han Solo might work better, but he is already a succesful smuggler when we meet him first.

Captain Kirk is the youngest Captain in Starfleet History, so not only is he already experienced, he is also special among those that are experienced...

Buffy is chosen from the start. She is unusual. Only her comrades are "ordinaries" - except that they are already considered freaks and outsider among the rest of their school...


I am pretty sure there must be some solid counter-examples, but probably not so much among the stories I usually associate with adventure stories.

I think fairy tails might work. Not The Little Mermaid, off course, but Hänsel & Gretel (how are they called in English-speaking countries) might work. They are ordinary children, abandoned by their parents.

Usually, the story about heroes begin with the things that make them or show that they are heroes. We will never know if they had 30 hit points are just one before the story...

 

[Family]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hero_with_a_Thousand_Faces

Seriously; and that's saying much coming from me.

 

[Ginnel]

but Hänsel & Gretel (how are they called in English-speaking countries) might work. They are ordinary children, abandoned by their parents.

Hansel and Gretel is what they are known as in the UK (just to let you know the sentance would be, what are they called in English speaking countries?)

 

[Henry]

Two I can think of: The Myth adventures series by Robert Aspirin; Skeeve himself is a magician's apprentice who at first only could levitate a freaking feather; throughout the series, no matter how his powers grew, he was always outmatched by his adversaries (I purposefully avoid the word "enemies") but winds up outsmarting them more often than he overpowers them.

Second, the wizard apprentice from Lawrence Watt-Evans' story "With a Single Spell" starts with the equivalent of a Fire cantrip, and destroys a dragon with it. Both of these guys were zeros who went on to be heroes.

Others include:

Jack the Giant-Killer
Arthur the boy-king-to-be (Sword in the Stone)
Jack Burton from Big Trouble in Little China. He was the classic everyman hero way in over his head, but goes in an pulls off things with blind luck anyway.

A more modern example: Zachary Levi's "Chuck Bartowski", whose only superpower is knowing things he shouldn't.