What I don't get RE: FR and High Level NPC's

[Zaukrie]

Well, I'm just not as smart as I thought I was, because I still don't get how high level NPCs are a problem. I still don't get how the world of man/elves/whatever even exists if there aren't high level NPCs all ove the world. But, since I keep posting the same things, and people on the other side kee posting the same things, I think I'm done with this topic.

In my worlds, there are plenty of high level NPCs.

Kings, princes, archmages, leaders and their fellow priest in churches, fighters, whatever. Without them, dragons, demons, hordes, liches, evil priests and mages and fighters would rule the world. Without them, there would be no one to make magic items. Without them, there would be no one to train the newcomers, to pay the newcomers.....

The existence of people in the US who are more powerful than me in no way means my life isn't important, and in the fantasy worlds I DM, the existence of NPCs more powerful than the PCs in no way impedes their ability to impact their world, grow more powerful and become legends eventually.

 

[Spatula]

Regarding Eberron, most of the high-level threats are behind-the-scenes types who are engaged in long-term plans of subterfuge (the Lords of Dust & the Inspired). The exception is the Daelkyr, who are trapped in Khyber and not actually an active threat to the world at the start of the campaign. But if there was some attempt to free them, who is available to stop it? Well, no one - it's the PCs' job. Perhaps the Chamber would help, perhaps not - they have a built-in excuse for not meddling in any particular matter (or for meddling on the side against the PCs). And the Blood of Vol isn't a high level threat - while Vol herself is rather powerful, she's also gone to great lengths to keep her existence secret for centuries.

As for FR... I don't see much point in getting rid of FR's plethora of high-level do-gooders. The saturation of uber-NPCs is part of what makes the Realms what it is. It's also part of the reason I don't care for it (along with rules supplements of highly questionable balance), but others obviously like it, so why change it? If you want something different, there's Eberron, Greyhawk, or homebrew settings.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Y'know, with all the chaos happening to the realms, I think it's almost official...

My Cthulu Comes To Town campaign has become cannon.

 

[Stogoe]

I prefer a setting where the PCs are heroes, not goblin-chasers and thief-hounders. Where darkness is falling on the world and only the PCs can stop it. A world where Mr. Disinterested 35th level wizard-next-door doesn't exist, and there aren't two dozen epic characters in a hundred mile radius.

But at this point nothing could ever make me play in the Realms. So trying to make FR appeal to me is a dumb idea.

 

[Brewhammer]

I prefer a setting where the PCs are heroes, not goblin-chasers and thief-hounders.

PC's don't start off as mighty dragon slaying heroes. They start off so weak that a group of kobolds or goblins pose a challenge. There are plenty of mid and high level challenges in FR and a good DM can add whatever he needs to his own campaigns to make them feel even more epic or heroic. PC's need not be "goblin chasers" though I don't see why this would be a bad thing when the PC's are of a low level.

A world where Mr. Disinterested 35th level wizard-next-door doesn't exist, and there aren't two dozen epic characters in a hundred mile radius./QUOTE]

In your own FR campaigns, no one need to live 'next door' to a high level wizard. And there are plenty of areas in Faerun where there are no high level PC's in a hundred mile (and up) radius. All of these factors and more - yes more! - can be adjusted by a good DM for any campaign.

But at this point nothing could ever make me play in the Realms. So trying to make FR appeal to me is a dumb idea.

This is what many of us are concerned about - that they're breaking what we like to appeal to people like you who they aren't likely to draw in anyway. Worst case scenario FR winds up as a broken setting with fewer people playing it.

And on a side note, after having watched Perkins' FR interview with Gamer Zer0 and finding out that no one is even playtesting the 'new' Realms in the office... yeah I've become more uneasy with the idea of people who aren't even playing it making changes to a setting I like.

 

[Stogoe]

I feel I should clarify. No, I don't think everyone has the same problems with FR I do. Obviously tastes differ, and gaming groups differ, and the GM's presentation of FR's movers and shakers differs, otherwise no one would be playing in FR. But I do have those problems, and I know I'm not unique. In a small minority, maybe.

I don't have any data about how many people would get into FR if they kicked Elminster into the background and ravaged the pantheon. But I'm sure that WotC does.

 

[Derren]

The problem with FR is that no matter what you do you are a bad DM.
When you do include the high level NPCs you are a bad DM according to Concerns of the Mighty because let NPCs steal the spotlight.

When you do not include the high level NPCs you are not running the FR correctly because all those good aligned high level NPCs are simply part of the realms and would according to their personality interverne with the PCs quest as they can do it better.

 

[The Ubbergeek]

The problem with FR is that no matter what you do you are a bad DM.
When you do include the high level NPCs you are a bad DM according to Concerns of the Mighty because let NPCs steal the spotlight.

When you do not include the high level NPCs you are not running the FR correctly because all those good aligned high level NPCs are simply part of the realms and would according to their personality interverne with the PCs quest as they can do it better.

the second aprt is a fallacy - why would they intervine at all?

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

Hmm... I don't think most of the major characters are actually going to be "killed off". More likely they will just be shifted in such a way as to be preoccupied by assumption. So if people are mad about Elminster or Alustriel, then their ire is misplaced. They've already stated that the most iconic characters aren't going anywhere anyways.

I don't know EXACTLY what will happen, but from everything I've read I have a strong feeling that ALL the chosen will lose their powers due to the death of Mystra. They will lose their long life and all of their Chosen powers. Then 100 years will pass, killing most of them due to old age.

I've heard rumors that somehow El survives but that due to the Spellplague his powers are severely reduced so that he acts as an adviser but has no real ability to save the world single handedly anymore.

Drizzt survives because he has long life due to being drow. However, all his companions are dead.

The 100 year gap also kills off most of the current batch of heroes, including most of the nameless NPCs with high levels.

They managed to save their 2 biggest iconic characters, the rest have a fairly good chance of being dead.

 

[Derren]

the second aprt is a fallacy - why would they intervine at all?

Because they are good aligned and would help people in need. Or because they live in the town/city/country which is threatened, work for the authority there or have friends there they wish to protect. Or they simply hate the BBEG.