What I don't get RE: FR and High Level NPC's

[Brewhammer]

The Forgotten Realms get the most flak for this sort of thing because there are both NPCs of orders of magnitude well above what the average campaign will ever see (unless I'm really misjudging just how many epic campaigns are out there), and there are lots of them, not just one or two. The Chosen of Mystra are probably being singled out in particular because not only are they really powerful, but there are so many of them that they have their own sub-grouping of "ways to be a really powerful NPC".

This got me wondering... do the Star Wars RPG fans complain about its high level NPCs too? Are they calling for Darth Vader or Yoda to get 'nuked?' Because that's essentially what the FR high level NPC essentially are.

 

[Cyronax]

Having played in a year-long campaign that included extra lives, I found them way more agreeable than actually raising the dead multiple times. Sometimes you just eat it -- the Barbarian that passes the Fort save versus death on a 3 rolls a 2, you start up a new session not realizing that you finished the last one at 2 HP, or whatever. Rolling a new character is often an annoyance, but when you've lost months of roleplaying because of a fluke, it's utterly infuriating. "You collapse and stabilize" certainly doesn't seem unreasonable every now and again.

Well its a simple difference of tastes then. As a DM and player I tend to enjoying the finality of death. The way that the 'extra lives' and massive ability scores for low level characters makes the campaign I'm referring to nothing more than a bash in the door hackfest.

It just wasn't for me, and I didn't match what they wanted out of a DM.

 

[Merlin the Tuna]

Well its a simple difference of tastes then. As a DM and player I tend to enjoying the finality of death.

Ah yes, the finality of death in a game with 4 separate spells to bring back the dead in the PHB alone. [/Tongue in cheek]

 

[Jedi_Solo]

This got me wondering... do the Star Wars RPG fans complain about its high level NPCs too? Are they calling for Darth Vader or Yoda to get 'nuked?' Because that's essentially what the FR high level NPC essentially are.

Han, Luke ane Leia can't instantly teleport to the other side of the galaxy like a high level wizard can. If you have a news report come across that says Alderaan just got itself blown up, you can fairly sure where the Big Guns of the universe are at that time.

Same thing Star Trek, if you have a star date going you can say where the Enterprise is at that time ("This is the same stardate as Episode X"). So even though Kirk or Picard can teleport down to a planet or to another ship, they can't teleport across the universe.

Both of these setting have easy ways to avoid the situation. Not only are the Big Guns busy - but they can't get to you right now (where as Elminster could if he wanted to).

 

[Barastrondo]

This got me wondering... do the Star Wars RPG fans complain about its high level NPCs too? Are they calling for Darth Vader or Yoda to get 'nuked?' Because that's essentially what the FR high level NPC essentially are.

It would depend on where you set the timeline, but I would guess that even though the movie heroes are definitely high-up on the level of magnitude, the problem with frequency is virtually non-existent. I mostly saw Star Wars games being set between A New Hope and Empire Strikes Back, and I never noticed players saying "Why should we bother? Luke and Han and Leia can handle all of this on their own." The Rebellion's on the ropes up for most of the latter trilogy, resources stretched thin all over the place. You might know that the answer to "so why doesn't Luke take care of this?" is "he's training in Dagobah, and not really all that much tougher than you are right now anyway."

It's probably a flawed comparison, though, because Star Wars started as a story about its principals and was an RPG setting second. The approach of the Forgotten Realms being a story about its principals first and an RPG setting second… that would probably rile folks up.

 

[drothgery]

This got me wondering... do the Star Wars RPG fans complain about its high level NPCs too? Are they calling for Darth Vader or Yoda to get 'nuked?' Because that's essentially what the FR high level NPC essentially are.

Err... yes, actually. Or pretty close to that.

Eras outside the movie timeline are popular settings for Star Wars games, because the uber-NPCs of the movies (Vader, Yoda, Palpatine) aren't around. And Star Wars RPG fans on WotC's message boards have been pretty vocal about wanting support for campaigns in timelines with little canon and few uber-NPCs, like the Knights of the Old Republic era or the Legacy era.

 

[Merlin the Tuna]

On the subject of Star Wars... I had heard that Saga stats up a few of the movie characters as fairly low level. Am I inventing memories, or is that the case?

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

The idea is that it is bad DMs who don't accurately portray the world. This world has those NPCs, and in all the official cannon novels they show up to save the day. Therefore, one can reasonably assume that to be accurate to the world means either coming up with a REALLY good excuse why they aren't saving the day or to actually have them show up.

To a lot of people, the idea that all 40 or 50 of them are "just too busy right now" isn't a REALLY good excuse.

Yeah, the problem with FR isn't that high-level NPCs exist. It's that you can't throw a dead rat without hitting one.

It's like living in City of Heroes and having your purse snatched. If ten guys in tights didn't show up within ten seconds to beat up your assailant, you'd wonder why.

 

[Barastrondo]

It's like living in City of Heroes and having your purse snatched. If ten guys in tights didn't show up within ten seconds to beat up your assailant, you'd wonder why.

Because they've outleveled that purse-snatcher, duh.

And man... if Elminster et al actually behaved like jaded MMORPG players, that would explain a lot.

"Elminster, help! The yuan-ti are on the march!"
"lol quest is gray to me"
"But they're sacking Waterdeep!"
"no xp, an lewt sux. grindin pit fiends."
"They're devouring babies like popcorn! Please, we need your help!"
[Elminster] is ignoring you.

 

[Zaukrie]

40-50, to cover a continent (not to mention other planes) larger than Asia? Teleporting everywhere (how do they know where all the action is, all the time)? I still don't get it. I'd expect EVERY town to have several/many mid-level characters, cities to have many high level characters, especially in a points of light campaign, or there would be no "light" to speak of.

As for the books, who should be the stars, exactly? If they start out as PCs, don't they instantly become "iconic" when there is a trilogy about them? Also, there are plenty of FR books where Drizzt and the Chosen aren't involved at all. There are also plenty where they are.

If the PCs also save the day, what heroes do they interact with? Who do they aspire to be if they are always the most powerful around? Who makes the magic items they are buying if there aren't high level mages and clerics around? Who teaches the fighters how to fight? Who runs the thieves guilds?