What I hate about A Song of Ice and Fire (Spoilers Ahead)

[Storminator]

Re: Odds on GRR Martin surviving to the end of the series?

I have to admit, I love this series. I'm fascinated by it. I check the bookstore every week, just in case. How many writers set their stories in a world where magic is -returning-?!? As the series continues, we are faced not with the inevitable ascension of the White Knight over the Black, but a proliferation of opportunities. You KNOW the "Dragon Queen" isn't going to be content on the other side of the ocean...and the return of a certain someone, formerly most seriously dead, certainly brings a whole new bundle of riddles to the party.

The final great mystery...who the heck will survive?

My own feeling: Every single one of the Freys die. Too much has been made of how many there are, and there's nothing like an undead vengeful mother!

I'm pretty sure the list of survivors will be small. The book's titled Feast for Crows, after all.

I think Danarys (sp?) was right when she said the people will welcome her with open arms when she returns. Look at the alternatives.

PS

 

[Son_of_Thunder]

www.georgerrmartin.com

Greetings all,

I went to Mr. Martin's offical website and read some archived transcripts of chats and interviews he's given (very cool). I found it interesting that some of the authors that influenced him greatly were J. R. R. Tolkien and Tad Williams' "Memory, Sorrow and Thorn". Very interesing.

Adieu,

Son of Thunder

 

[Son_of_Thunder]

Query?

Greetings All!!!

After going back and reading some of the replies to this thread I am in need of some definitions. Several posters have said that if you like "Black and White" stories then read the books I suggested. Would someone define what this means? I definitely think there is more heroism in the books recommended by myself, but I don't think they are strictly black and white. Raistlin was definitely shades of grey as was Allanon from the Shannara series.

Thanks,

Son of Thunder

 

[Theron]

SPOILERS

Spoilers Follow - You've Been Warned

Great thread! There's a nice variance of opinion without abusive commentary.

Here are a few of my thoughts on the series.

Before gaming, before fantasy, before all other forms of geekdom, my first love is history. Specifically, medieval history. As such, I am a hard customer for writers of medieval fantasy. Snap my disbelief suspenders too hard, and I'm outta here. Martin is one of the few writers I've found who can write believeable people from the medieval perspective. Also, it's fun to try and figure out which figure from the Wars of the Roses (one of his inspirations) provided which character in the novels (not that there are direct corellations).

As for his writing skills, I am constantly in awe. I too had to put the book down and catch my breath after the red wedding. What was worse was seeing all the signs pointing to treachery, but not wanting to believe them.

At present, I'm re-reading the first book, having read all of them once so far. As such, I've got a lot of knowledge culled from the second and third volumes, and it's fascinating to see how deftly elements of the story are woven together. Take the whole Lyanna/Rhaegar/Jon situation. In the first book, Robert rails against Rhaegar raping Lyanna over and over again. Knowing what we learn from the swamp kids in the third book (which basically says that Lyanna loved Rhaegar and ran off with him), it's clear that the "rape" was Robert's rationalization for losing his love to a hated rival. I even casts some doubt on Robert's love for Lyanna, given his hatred for the Targaeryans and his competitive nature. Furthermore, it pretty well confirms that Jon is a Targaeryan himself.

 

[Theron]

Re: Query?

Greetings All!!!

After going back and reading some of the replies to this thread I am in need of some definitions. Several posters have said that if you like "Black and White" stories then read the books I suggested. Would someone define what this means? I definitely think there is more heroism in the books recommended by myself, but I don't think they are strictly black and white. Raistlin was definitely shades of grey as was Allanon from the Shannara series.

My two cents.

Yes, Raistlin was a grey sort of character (or, more properly in the scheme of things, a red one). However, I think people are speaking more to the overall tone of a book or series than individual characters. DragonLance was designed around some very specific premises, which included the notion of a clear-cut distinction between good and evil (even Raistlin was constantly pressured by the story to choose one or the other), and that evil will inevitably turn on itself and lose. In ASoIaF, there are no such guarantees. "Good" people die, and horrible examples of humanity thrive. Survival is a matter of wits, alliances, and luck rather than which side you're on.

Does that make any more sense?

 

[Fast Learner]

I agree that it was a good thing(TM), that is rarely seen in fantasy lit. Killing is frequently glossed over in Fantasy Lit. Primarily, because death makes us uncomfortable. Martin's characters not only kill, they live with the emotions of killing. They have images burned into their brain that they cannot forget. They kill people they care for. Placed in Jons shoes, I would poop on myself and start to cry. He was a basically good person put into a loose-loose situation.

Death is very different. Death can be horrible. Death can also be calm and serene. The West has a preoccupation with avoiding end of life issues, because we fear it so much. The two are seperate issues. I have watched the best and the worst kinds of death. If you try to run and hide, life will eventually make you pay.

Sorry, yup, exactly, I meant killing. Death is a whole 'nother matter.

 

[Kestrel]

Re: SPOILERS

Spoilers Follow - You've Been Warned


At present, I'm re-reading the first book, having read all of them once so far. As such, I've got a lot of knowledge culled from the second and third volumes, and it's fascinating to see how deftly elements of the story are woven together. Take the whole Lyanna/Rhaegar/Jon situation. In the first book, Robert rails against Rhaegar raping Lyanna over and over again. Knowing what we learn from the swamp kids in the third book (which basically says that Lyanna loved Rhaegar and ran off with him), it's clear that the "rape" was Robert's rationalization for losing his love to a hated rival. I even casts some doubt on Robert's love for Lyanna, given his hatred for the Targaeryans and his competitive nature. Furthermore, it pretty well confirms that Jon is a Targaeryan himself.

I agree with this. Its looking like that he is shaping up Jon to control a lot of things. I wouldn't be too surprised that before its done that Dany and Jon become the new king and queen of the Seven Kingdoms