D&D 5E What I want: 17 books or book series (and two boxes) for a Third Golden Age

[Johnny Angel]

That is quite a wish list. Some of these may prove difficult to market, though I think this is one way that even an established company can take advantage of Kickstarter. They can establish an actual market for the product beforehand. The turn-based isometric RPG was supposed to be dead, but we can see now that not only did Larian Studios make their nut to crank out a new one, they're actually making new sales after the pre-sales have been fulfilled. Who knows what products no one would take a risk on could actually be funded by spreading the risk around people putting their money where their mouths are right then and there?

 

[Agamon]

I had to back and read the end of that other thread, because I was utterly confused when I saw who the OP of this thread was. Kinda two extremes.

I'm less confused now.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Whizbang, almost all of these title and product descriptions are straightforward iterations of products which have been relatively successful.

There's successful "here's a book of RPG orcish" and "buy my Dragonlance coinage" products out there?

I think I can predict what you want. Whatever Hasbro produces, is somehow coincidentally what you wanted.

"Hasbro, how did you know that what I wanted are four adventures (which I'll never actually play through), a bunch of plastic figures made in China, and some durable acrylic chits? Just the things I wanted!"

"Ooh! An elemental splatbook. That's just the thing! Thank you Hasbro!!! How business savvy the D&D team is!!! Not like us fans with our childish wishful thinking!"

"Ooh! Two DM's screens! Thank you! I'll collect both. No niche products for me!"

Responding to even mild disagreement by calling someone a fanboy isn't a great way to win any arguments, especially since I haven't bought any 5E material and sold the only 4E stuff I got (the three original core books) soon after purchasing them.

The last WotC book I bought new (as opposed to shuffling stuff in and out of the used games at NobleKnight.com) was Dragon Magic in 2006.

So, no, not a fanboy. Sorry.

I suspect you have mostly negative, snide things to say about my preferences because I'm not a Hasbro employee. If Mike Mearls announced to EN World that the next product was a Spell Compendium series or an Atlas of the D&D Multiverse, I suppose you'd be overjoyed, like it was just the pony you were looking for.

I doubt that you'd be asking:

"Oh I wish WotC was producing two DM screens, some plastic baubles, and a elemental classbook!!!"

If WotC were producing the line of books I suggest, you wouldn't blink an eye. Your imagination is formed by whatever exists already.

I feel like you're mistaking me for someone else here.

The previous golden ages were the Original Greyhawk campaign, BECMI, 1e, and, to some waning degree, 2e.

OK, but none of those match your wish list for a "third golden age." Those were much looser times, where things were self-contained in a single book for the most part and, until 2E really got rolling, there was no expectation that what happened in, say, Saltmarsh was known to or mattered to the folks in Solace.

There certainly was no idea that everything fit into a single uber-timeline and master setting. That very idea came later, in Spelljammer and Planescape, but even then, those were almost entirely self-contained in their own lines. The only time I'm aware that Spelljammer escaped its own line was in Greyhawk Ruins, for instance.

It wouldn't necessarily have to be the very best, most fitting superhero game ever made.

I'm confused why you want WotC to make a mediocre superhero game. Wouldn't it be better to just let people who want a D20-based superhero game go play M&M? (And before you decide I'm an M&M fanboy, it's way too crunchy for me and I dumped everything but "Paragons.")

What is the goal here? To have superheroic stuff to cross over with regular D&D games? If so, why not just stat them up as monsters, basically, with NPC-only abilities?

It's too bad if Hasbro doesn't have anyone who even knows what is contained in their own IP.

It would hardly be unprecedented. Lucas had to hire a guy to keep track of all of the Star Wars continuity.

I'm glad you're constantly receiving your pony--whatever Hasbro happens to place in front of you.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

That is quite a wish list. Some of these may prove difficult to market, though I think this is one way that even an established company can take advantage of Kickstarter.

Now that is a good thought. Troll Lords, Necromancer and Onyx Path have cranked out a bunch of products I never would have thought there'd be a market for by going to Kickstarter. (Onyx Path is managing to support both oWoD and nWoD with an incredibly aggressive publication schedule, for instance, something I would have thought impossible.)

A Kickstarter project for Coins of Greyhawk, or whatever, would leave it squarely in the hands of the market and the fans: If there's a genuine market for it, they'll shell out for it, and hopefully enough to create a bit of a back catalog as well.

I've Kickstarted a number of RPG products and I'd happily some WotC ones that tickled my fancy.

 

[Remathilis]

Even if the 5E SRD were to be totally Open, I still wouldn't buy much of this. I don't want any more adventures from WotC. Or maybe like one a year. I don't really want any more DRAGON magazine articles either, or a deluge of digital content.

Though I like the streamlined Basic Rules, I'm tired of each iteration re-inventing the wheel, as if I were an amnesiac. That's why I stopped patronizing D&D once 3.5 came.

Sounds like you aren't interested in D&D 5e. I mean, you've already basically said, "I'm not buying the PHB, DMG, or MM" so what incentive is there for them to make anything on your wish list? Some of that is just splat (classes, races, spells), some of that is just too esoteric (games, coins and languages? Does this stuff REALLY ever come up in game?) I'm no fan of 2 DM screens, but much of this stuff seems the same things that bankrupted TSR.

Anyway, you basically sound like your not interested in a "new edition" anyway ("re-inventing the wheel"). So what's the incentive for them to take this seriously?

 

[Dungeonosophy]

There's successful "here's a book of RPG orcish" and "buy my Dragonlance coinage" products out there?

Those are the new ones. ;-) I said "almost all." That's why I put them and the tavern game boxed set at the end of the list.

I feel like you're mistaking me for someone else here.

Fair enough. You're right. It's rude to imply someone is a "fanboy". I prefer the word fan(atic) were laid aside for "aficionado". We're all free-standing men here.

Likewise, it's naughty to imply that the OP, which I put some work into--and which is mostly a straightforward re-imagining of various 2e, 3e, and 4e publishing tropes (e.g. 4e's PHB1, PHB2, PHB3)--is akin to wishing for a pony.

I'm confused why you want WotC to make a mediocre superhero game.

What is the goal here? To have superheroic stuff to cross over with regular D&D games?

The goal is no more obtuse than asking Gygax: why take the party to Barsoom or the Wild West or on a crashed spaceship? For the fun of it.

The same question could be asked of any of the other genres which have used the D&D/d20 core rules. I like the idea of a 5E "D&D Modern" which has campaign models for every genre, and which, unlike d20 Modern, is 100% compatible and multiclassable across genres.

Whizbang Dustyboots, you have one my favorite EN World handles. I recognize you're an ENW longtimer. I'll lay aside my mischaracterization.

 

[Dungeonosophy]

Sounds like you aren't interested in D&D 5e. I mean, you've already basically said, "I'm not buying the PHB, DMG, or MM"

Nah, that's a misreading. I say I'm refraining from buying into the system until it's certain if and how Open it will be.

As I said, I like 5e. I started a 5e Basic Rules game this weekend. (Here's the story log.) I like the rules set. Quick and streamlined. Worked fine with a Pathfinder Beginnner adventure, without having to restat anything.

so what incentive is there for them to make anything on your wish list? Some of that is just splat (classes, races, spells),

True: races, classes, and spells are splat. The difference is that this proposed series of 5E books would be systematically firming up and completing all the piles and piles of existing splat. Instead of piling more and more "new" splat (e.g. the elemental evil Adventurers Handbook) on top of the years and years of backlogged splat. All those pages and pages of 4e digital splat and 3e splat (incarnum magic, and all that) would become digestable and integrated. 5E is as good a time and vehicle as any for integrating all past editions. I thought that was one of the goals of 5E. What better way to integrate the past editions than to systematically gather it up and update it to 5E?

Also, these straightforward reference works could stay in print for over a decade. It'd have an agelessness to it. Especially if WotC released all of the crunch (and even some of the Product Identity) as Open Content, so that self-publishers and third-party publishers would fuel sales by tying their work into Hasbro's key reference books. I'd be glad for a slower iteration cycle.

some of that is just too esoteric (games, coins and languages? Does this stuff REALLY ever come up in game?)

My perception is that you're just saying that because TSR or WotC have never published a language book or set of coins, then it's too esoteric. You might have said the same thing in 2004, if I'd suggesting making a tavern game which is supposed to represent an in-game game. actually a new idea for D&D. I thought of it. (Others have thought of fantasy coins and fictional languages, but it's never been done with D&D.)

Some of this must've come into the game, since it already exists in the game: the drow phrasebook, some DRAGON magazine articles on the various languages, the effort put into having Daniel Reeve (the calligrapher and mapmaker for the LotR films) design the elven and dwarven scripts for 4e (that's something I liked about 4e), and the detailed descriptions of the coinage of various nations of Faerun.

Anyway, you basically sound like your not interested in a "new edition" anyway ("re-inventing the wheel"). So what's the incentive for them to take this seriously?

Hey I love D&D. I like much of what I've seen of 5e so far. Yet I'm not going to invest my limited bread in a system if it's there to further box the consumer's mind into a corporate-shaped box. If 5E is Opened wide for self-publishing, then it would be worth it for me to invest in it. Otherwise, I'll hold out for whoever makes an Open 5.5e. Or I'll make my own.

 

[Dungeonosophy]

Now that is a good thought. Troll Lords, Necromancer and Onyx Path have cranked out a bunch of products I never would have thought there'd be a market for by going to Kickstarter. (Onyx Path is managing to support both oWoD and nWoD with an incredibly aggressive publication schedule, for instance, something I would have thought impossible.)

A Kickstarter project for Coins of Greyhawk, or whatever, would leave it squarely in the hands of the market and the fans: If there's a genuine market for it, they'll shell out for it, and hopefully enough to create a bit of a back catalog as well.

I've Kickstarted a number of RPG products and I'd happily some WotC ones that tickled my fancy.

Yes, that's a good idea. Well said.

 

[Dungeonosophy]

I had to back and read the end of that other thread, because I was utterly confused when I saw who the OP of this thread was. Kinda two extremes.

The Free Culture idea (of ceremonially opening up the out-of-print D&D IP to the Public Domain, as fuel for the new 5E rulesbooks and worldbooks) and the concept expressed in this thread (of systematically gathering and updating all the splat from previous editions) are complementary to each other. They are complementary aspects of a Third Golden Age of D&D.

There's no question that I appreciate the potential in D&D. I am frankly expressing what wise, unorthodox stewardship of the D&D culture would look like.

T

 

[Li Shenron]

Well you got me laughing a bit with the "Coins" product to be honest but the following would be certainly nice:

• Games of the D&D Multiverse. A boxed set packed full of various games which are played in-character within the D&D Multiverse: Dragonchess from Oerth, Magestones from Krynn, Three-Dragon Ante, and others which have been mentioned in D&D setting books or novels (even if their rules would have to be invented for this boxed set).

Perhaps separate small games would be more feasible than a giant boxed set, but depends on the costs.

I think WotC would more likely design entirely new games rather than games mentioned in the worlds of D&D, but the latter would be so much better. I am not sure but was Three-Dragon Ante completely new, or based on a game existing in a fantasy setting?

I really think that if they design something new, it's still a piece of cake to tie it with a game actually mentioned in D&D settings. Mostly likely those in-world games have never had their rules defined anywhere, but only vaguely mentioned. So you can design an effectively new game based on those vague informations, and say it's that game from the world of Dragonlance. For a fan of Dragonlance, this would be added value, for someone who doesn't care and only wants the game, there is no harm.