D&D 5E What If 5E Becomes a Single-Edition-Pleaser?

[Mark CMG]

I've been following as much of the discussion as I can over the last week here and elsewhere and I'm noting a number of people who either stonewall discussions that stray from the ideals of their preferred edition or outright pile on threads, along with other like-minded folk, when any aspect of their preferred edition is questioned or tagged as faulty (in opinion or fact). So my question is, what if the feedback given to WotC designers results in a 5E that simply only pleases the fans of any single previous edition of the game? Also, will WotC or the community be served by a process that produces such a game? And lastly, what are the best and worse case scenarios of such a result?


(Please let's avoid pointing fingers at any specific people or editions, as if that didn't go without saying.)

 

[was]

reunification...its a good thing.
...Seriously though, I think the designing folks know how much is riding on this new edition and they'll put out a decent product that satisfies the majority of folks. Some might not be 100% on a couple of things but I think they'll be good with the overall product.

 

[Crazy Jerome]

A certain amount of the negative side of that is inevitable. But likewise, I doubt they will totally miss out, either. After all, people who post tend to be more vocal than those that out there playing. For every person potentially building a grudge here, there are many out there that just want a new version that has craft rules or rules for building a keep or whatever. You could satisfy a lot of them with add ons to 3E or 4E. So certainly a new edition that does even more will at least get them to pay attention.

So worse case in your scenario is that they only get the easy to get new customers, and not very firmly, either. You'll see a quicker drop in sales than you would with something more engaging, like a movie that isn't a complete stinker, but whose word of mouth hurts the followup weeks.

The real theoretical worse case is that the old D&Ders, 2E guys, 3E/3.5/PF guys, and 4E/Essential guys all get their points across, but the effort to try to accommodate all of them aims too high--and produces a mishmash that doesn't even objectively work, let alone please anyone. I'm not worried about that.

Best case either way is that WotC is smart enough to ferret out the useful informaton presented and make a solid game. And I've got better than usual hopes because of the "version 3.0" rule invented for Microsoft software. MS never gets it right until the third full version. (And most software companies suffer from this somewhat.) There are lots of complicated reasons why this has some merit, but mainly it is because it takes two full cycles "out in the wild" to really figure out what the heck the customers want and need. I see enough of the version 1 and 2 software mistakes in WotC's first two tries with D&D to think this might work for games, too.

On the negative side, that means skill challenges would not be perfected until 6E, and anything introduced totally new in 5E will start fully working in another decade or so. Fortunately, it isn't an ironclad rule, and wide playtesting is the main way you fight the problem.

 

[Tallifer]

1. If the Fifth Edition is basically AD&D plus 3rd edition, then I will just keep playing Fourth Edition, and so will many of my friends.

2. On the other hand, if it becomes apparent to the designers that the Pathfinder and Old School Renaissance players cannot be appeased, then I hope the Fifth Edition will just be a new and improved Fourth Edition.

3. In a perfect world, the intended modularity would work so that everyone gets the game they want. However many groups would still be internally divided as to content and options.

 

[foolish_mortals]

are they even printing up the 4th edition books anymore? What are you going to do when yours start to fall apart?

foolish_mortals

 

[enrious]

are they even printing up the 4th edition books anymore? What are you going to do when yours start to fall apart?

foolish_mortals

There are still plenty of 4e books available from WotC and distributors.

No reason to Chicken Little at this stage.

 

[trancejeremy]

There is a real possibility it won't please fans of any edition.

Just to make an example - look at Van Halen. You used to have people who were fans of David Lee Roth, then fans of the Sammy Hagar era.

But now that DLR is back, well you get people complaining because Wolfgang Van Halen is on bass, not Michael Anthony.

 

[Ainamacar]

There is a real possibility it won't please fans of any edition.

Just to make an example - look at Van Halen. You used to have people who were fans of David Lee Roth, then fans of the Sammy Hagar era.

But now that DLR is back, well you get people complaining because Wolfgang Van Halen is on bass, not Michael Anthony.

Sure, but Van Halen isn't modular. If it were you could make a phone call and the guy you want would show up at the stadium.

(Well, IMHO, long-term changes in the roster are more analogous to traditional edition switches.)

 

[Croesus]

There is a real possibility it won't please fans of any edition.

Which is one reason why I don't believe pleasing us should be their primary goal. IMNSHO, they should have the following design priniciples:

1. The game should feel like D&D, which means keeping a number of sacred cows. By all means, they should streamline those elements to improve the play experience, but at its core, the game has to have the right feel.

2. The core game should be simple enough that new players, without an experienced player as a teacher, can learn and play the game. Additional complexity to satisfy us grognards can be optional/modular.

3. Related to point 2, keep the core rules short, simple, focused on playing the game. Playing is what hooks new players. Once someone is hooked, then the optional rules for intricate builds can be added. Once someone is hooked, then try to sell them the huge multi-hundred page advanced rulebooks.

We all realize that this is a very small niche hobby. And it has been steadily shrinking since the 3.x heydays. The smaller this niche, the harder it is to find players, the more the niche shrinks. WOTC needs to focus on the new folks, while keeping the game true to its roots.

If they focus on these elements, I firmly believe most of us who've played the game for years (decades) will enjoy the game. If, on the other hand, they focus only on pleasing us old-timers, I also firmly believe they'll just produce another 4E - something that appeals to a fraction of the current base.

 

[Mark CMG]

Sure but we're getting a bit off track here. The question in the OP takes into consideration that there are certain ideas individuals have regarding what they think will bring about unity. That's a laudable goal that I support. But the questions here are -

(. . .) what if the feedback given to WotC designers results in a 5E that simply only pleases the fans of any single previous edition of the game? Also, will WotC or the community be served by a process that produces such a game? And lastly, what are the best and worse case scenarios of such a result?