Ruin Explorer
Legend
Really good critique here imho.
D&D 5E What (if anything) do you find "wrong" with 5E?
- Thread starter DND_Reborn
- Start date
DND_Reborn
The High Aldwin
So, far, I think just one person has basically said they find nothing "wrong" with 5E.
While I agree with many 5E definitely has some great points, the desire for a simple game seems in conflict with many of the points for what people find "wrong".
IMO, I think this shows there is definitely a space and maybe a need for two branches of D&D, a return to Basic and Advanced, if you will. (And before anything chimes in, A5E is not what I consider "Advanced", so please let's not go there... thanks.
).
I'm going to let this thread go for a while and when it is over compile a list of the issues with their frequencies.
Thanks to all for your contributions and to all who continue to add to them!
While I agree with many 5E definitely has some great points, the desire for a simple game seems in conflict with many of the points for what people find "wrong".
IMO, I think this shows there is definitely a space and maybe a need for two branches of D&D, a return to Basic and Advanced, if you will. (And before anything chimes in, A5E is not what I consider "Advanced", so please let's not go there... thanks.
).I'm going to let this thread go for a while and when it is over compile a list of the issues with their frequencies.
Thanks to all for your contributions and to all who continue to add to them!
Micah Sweet
Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
People on this site, in general, don't seem to want the simple game that WotC clearly wants to sell. Of course, there are exceptions (some quite vocal), but the hordes of new players WotC is catering to don't seem to be well-represented here.So, far, I think just one person has basically said they find nothing "wrong" with 5E.
While I agree with many 5E definitely has some great points, the desire for a simple game seems in conflict with many of the points for what people find "wrong".
IMO, I think this shows there is definitely a space and maybe a need for two branches of D&D, a return to Basic and Advanced, if you will. (And before anything chimes in, A5E is not what I consider "Advanced", so please let's not go there... thanks.
I'm going to let this thread go for a while and when it is over compile a list of the issues with their frequencies.
Thanks to all for your contributions and to all who continue to add to them!
Nebulous
Legend
The Con save is equally horrible for the bad guys, who usually fail it. I miss the old Concentration Skill where you could actually get GOOD at something. 5.5e needs a major overhaul, but the changes in this thread won't happen probably until a full 6e.
Ancalagon
Dusty Dragon
I really like 5e, it may be my favourite edition yet. However, it is not perfect.
1: as many others have noted, the layout and writing and indexing could be a LOT better. I've also noticed a trend in contradictory writing in some abilities/spells - it's a bit long, but basically the first sentence misleads the reader - explained here: A serious problem with 5e: the first sentences.
2: I actually do like short rests and long rests, but what I don't like is some of the consequences of this system: how it affect balances between classes and puts constraints on the pacing.
1: as many others have noted, the layout and writing and indexing could be a LOT better. I've also noticed a trend in contradictory writing in some abilities/spells - it's a bit long, but basically the first sentence misleads the reader - explained here: A serious problem with 5e: the first sentences.
2: I actually do like short rests and long rests, but what I don't like is some of the consequences of this system: how it affect balances between classes and puts constraints on the pacing.
overgeeked
Open-World Sandbox
I want a simpler game than WotC wants to sell.
James Gasik
We don't talk about Pun-Pun
There's lots of minor quibbles for me, but I'm going to limit myself to the big ones:
1- the saving throw system is borked. By Tier 3 and later, your character is going to encounter saves that are incredibly difficult for them to make by design. Eventually, this could lead to a save that is impossible to make, even on a natural 20! That seems ridiculous.
2- concentration on spells seems to prevent the kind of play where casters are happy to support the melee by buffing them. Now most buffs are sad, and just about any one you want to cast is limited in targets and you can only commit to one per combat, which also turns off a lot of other good spells you might want to cast, like crowd control or debuffing enemies. Add to that the fact that most casters don't have Constitution save proficiency, even ones designed to cast spells in melee, like Clerics or Paladins, and pretty soon, combats revolve around one big spell and lots of explosions.
3- treasure having little value to players removes the sense of wonder from the proceedings- if I describe a massive gold idol, the players shrug and go "eh, that's cool I guess". This is so far from the D&D experience it boggles the mind.
4- magic items being shunted off into an optional system, not well developed, with no guidance for how/when/why to include them in the game, on top of a very arbitrary limiting mechanic. I get some people like low magic games, but D&D, for me, was always the game about taking insane risks to get your hands on amazing swag!
5- most classes seem to stop getting interesting abilities fairly early on. And some of the later abilities are so dull and uninspired I like to forget they exist, like Indomitable. Players should be chomping at the bit to gain higher levels, but thanks to bounded accuracy, by level 7 or so, you probably have everything you need for the rest of the game!
6- almost forgot! Short rests taking an hour? Where can you go to hole up for an hour in a dungeon? Not to mention the narrative pause- "oh the Warlock has no more magic, we better stop exploring for an hour, never no mind if we're in a hurry for any reason!".
1- the saving throw system is borked. By Tier 3 and later, your character is going to encounter saves that are incredibly difficult for them to make by design. Eventually, this could lead to a save that is impossible to make, even on a natural 20! That seems ridiculous.
2- concentration on spells seems to prevent the kind of play where casters are happy to support the melee by buffing them. Now most buffs are sad, and just about any one you want to cast is limited in targets and you can only commit to one per combat, which also turns off a lot of other good spells you might want to cast, like crowd control or debuffing enemies. Add to that the fact that most casters don't have Constitution save proficiency, even ones designed to cast spells in melee, like Clerics or Paladins, and pretty soon, combats revolve around one big spell and lots of explosions.
3- treasure having little value to players removes the sense of wonder from the proceedings- if I describe a massive gold idol, the players shrug and go "eh, that's cool I guess". This is so far from the D&D experience it boggles the mind.
4- magic items being shunted off into an optional system, not well developed, with no guidance for how/when/why to include them in the game, on top of a very arbitrary limiting mechanic. I get some people like low magic games, but D&D, for me, was always the game about taking insane risks to get your hands on amazing swag!
5- most classes seem to stop getting interesting abilities fairly early on. And some of the later abilities are so dull and uninspired I like to forget they exist, like Indomitable. Players should be chomping at the bit to gain higher levels, but thanks to bounded accuracy, by level 7 or so, you probably have everything you need for the rest of the game!
6- almost forgot! Short rests taking an hour? Where can you go to hole up for an hour in a dungeon? Not to mention the narrative pause- "oh the Warlock has no more magic, we better stop exploring for an hour, never no mind if we're in a hurry for any reason!".
overgeeked
Open-World Sandbox
I disagree. Basic D&D is a simple game. Much simpler than 5E by a long shot. And yet it solves the majority of my complaints (and other similar complaints).
Ruin Explorer
Legend
I think you'll find that as "new" players become less new, they also tend to start coming up with problems with whatever RPG they started with.
5E is no different. You can find people on the DNDnext reddit who only started playing RPGs like, four years ago, with 5E, have never played another RPG, but will have complaints pretty close to a lot of the complaints here (not identically phrased, but often getting at the same underlying issues).
And we've seen this countless times. People start with Traveller, or RIFTS, or Shadowrun, or Vampire, or Cyberpunk, or 3E, or even PtbA or BitD and eventually, as they "get wise" to the system, they start to have criticisms and things they think could be changed or improved
DND_Reborn
The High Aldwin
While it may solve the majority of your complaints, it doesn't for many others. Once more posts have come in, I'll summarize everyone's issues and we'll see more then (maybe I am wrong???).
But FWIW, I am also in favor of a truly "Basic" 5E...
