What if only Wee Jas and Erythnul?

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

The common person would never worship either of those except through direct intimidation and even then, they'd worship other figures at home in private, starting with a saint or god that would protect them from the others.

In standard D&D cosmology, belief in a god can create a divinity. I think there would be alternative gods popping up regularly.

Having said that, most campaigns don't consider the religious needs of the non-adventurers ("the most popular god in the world is the god of fighter/wizard/prestige class characters, Kickassius!"), so you can ignore this if you like.

 

[Solarious]

Ah. the Grey Lady, and The Many. I love this campaign idea already.

 

[GreatLemur]

The common person would never worship either of those except through direct intimidation and even then, they'd worship other figures at home in private, starting with a saint or god that would protect them from the others.

I think you're making a big assumption about the way Wee Jas would be presented to the people in such a setting. If there never were any gods other than her and Erythnul, and monotheistic Wee Jas worship has been the status quo for generations, then I expect her church wouldn't seem any worse to the ordinary people of that world than the Catholic church did to the average serf in the Dark Ages.

Hell, look at what they've got to live with: A powerful, civilized (if rather harsh) Lawful organization that heals their wounds and can defend them (or keep them in line) with magic and a little bit of institutional undeadery . . . and a wilderness full of blood-drinking, sheep-buggering, Chaotic-or-Evil-or-both cults. I think most folks would hand over a nice fat tithe to the Dark-Eyed Lady's holy zombies and count themselves lucky.

I'm really loving the imagery this whole set up suggests, and the kind of dichotomies the world could be filled with. Can't help but think about the Hammerites and Pagans of the setting from the Thief games, too.

 

[Particle_Man]

As for the cult thing: Awesome!
I too favor schism'ing the Grim Lady's followers as an excuse to put in a few more domains.
What are you going to do, if anything, about Druids (and Rangers)?
What's the church's stance on them, do they even exist?

Similarly, what about Celestials? Do they exist? They seem too... good... for the theological model you're proposing.

Might be kind of fun to have the "angelic beings" of your world be the Baatezu...

Druids...would have a different focus. I guess there could be LN Druids of Wee Jas, AND CN/NE Druids of Erythnul. But you are right in that I want all divine spells coming from one of the two gods, and that may leave druids out of the picture. Rangers of Erythnul would work fine (favored enemy: human), and I am not sure about Rangers of Wee Jas. I might do some judicious pruning of classes, having some not exist in the world, and others be Bad Guy (tm) only. Or, I could allow some CN worshippers/followers of their local tribal totem, blissfully unaware of what was actually granting their spells, and thus feeling unfairly persecuted by the Wee Jas followers.

I would have to rethink the outer planes creatures. Presumably Demons and Sladdi would be on one side, but for the Grey Lady, I am not so sure. Inevitables would fit, and perhaps formian servants (or even my beloved Modrons). I don't know about either devils or celestials at this point. Maybe they just don't exist. Another option: Make the elementals LN and on Wee Jas's side (except for some that have been corrupted to evil).

I understand that next month's dragon will focus on Wee Jas, and that may give me some ideas.

But I would rule that no new gods can be created through worship. So if one is getting spells, and it is not from Wee Jas, then,...

 

[Terwox]

This is a really cool idea.

Although I'm not terribly fond of the idea myself, you could have some of the cults be dedicated to good concepts -- could go from cults dedicated to hedonism, etc, to joy, or even family, loyalty, love, etc. I'm not really gunning for grey morality in my games at the moment now, but if I were... having a cult of joy and a cult of protection of the weak that was actually simply a face of Erythnul would be something.

 

[Terwox]

Oh, and what's wrong with a ranger of Wee Jas? If she allows druids, why not allow what's sort of a druid/fighter as well?

 

[I'm A Banana]

I would have to rethink the outer planes creatures.

I would maybe have Tanar'ri/Demons summoned by The Many, but I don't think Wee Jas needs 'em. She can summon undead, shadow beings, ghosts of times long past...she works with this world, the Slaghterer works with the Otherworld.

Perhaps that's WHY Wee Jas is considered kind of the best choice. If all that waits for you in the afterlife is theblood, boiling, fury, and chaos of the Abyss, who WOULDN'T want to come back as an undead instead?

 

[Ry]

I would maybe have Tanar'ri/Demons summoned by The Many, but I don't think Wee Jas needs 'em. She can summon undead, shadow beings, ghosts of times long past...she works with this world, the Slaghterer works with the Otherworld.

Perhaps that's WHY Wee Jas is considered kind of the best choice. If all that waits for you in the afterlife is theblood, boiling, fury, and chaos of the Abyss, who WOULDN'T want to come back as an undead instead?

That sounds cool... sort of "Beyond this world, there are only the infinite Hells. Our goddess allows a chance... to remain a companion to this world."

In fact, that could be a cool basis for Spirit Shamans in that world - basically tapping into the souls that have stayed behind to care for this world.

 

[Nyaricus]

Man, this sounds like an awesome idea, but a few thoughts here:

• Pick up Ghostwalk, if you can. I'd be a perfect companion to this sort of game (huh, who'd have thunk that )
• Also pick up Heroes of Horro. A great companion to this sort of horror-esque campaign, the two classes (Archivist and Dread Necromancer) would fit in great!

Classes: you want dark or morally gray heroes. There's also the fact that these two churchs are the ONLY churches, so with that idea, I got the concept of having factions for each church, with specific classes being allowed only with the worhip of that god or goddess. Below are my suggestions:

Wee Jas-specific Classes

• Cloistered Cleric (UA) - Clerics of Wee Jas exchange might in battle for mighty erudite knowledge.
• Paladin of Tyranny (UA) - the Grim Tyrants are the knight caste of the Grim Lady.
• Dread Necromancer (HoH) - Controllers of the dead, Dread Necromancers are not priests but still formidable vassals of the Grey Lady.
• Archivist (HoH) - Wee Jas worshippers who scrounge up many dark secrets through thier studies.
• Hexblade (ComWar) - Accursed, malign warriors who pervert others for the Grey Lady.

Erythnul-specific Classes

• Cleric (PHB) - mighty in their spells and mighty in battle, the Priests of The Many are foes to be feared.
• Paladin of Slaughter (UA) - The Manys' dark templars, these are the Knight caste.
• Totem Barbarian (UA) - Demon cults of The Many, Totem Barbarians pick a Demon Prince to venerate and fight like.
• Warlock (ComArc) - servants of The Many, Warlocks revel in spreading chaos and discord.
• Hexblade (ComWar) - Accursed, malign warriors who pervert others for The Many

Neutral Classes

• Beguiler (PHBII) - arcane sneaks who simply try to stay out of the sights of the two warring gods.
• Druid (PHB) - Druids worship nature itself, rarely picking sides in anything. Closely aligned with Spirit Shamans.
• Fighter (PHB) - Warriors for the Grey Lady, the Many or just themselves.
• Ranger (PHB) - Wilderness warriors, rangers simply try to keep roads open from town to town.
• Rogue (PHB) - sneaks who simply try to stay out of the sights of the two gods.
• Scout (ComAdven) - wilderness sneaks who simply try to stay out of the sights of the two gods and who [can] be aligned with the rangers.
• Spirit Shaman (ComDiv) - Spirit Shamans worship the spirits of nature, and are closely alinged with the Druids.
• Wizard (PHB) - weilders of powerful arcane might.

Others

• Healer (MHB) - a possible source of healing, maybe NPC only?
• Knight (PHBII) - Perhaps the only honourable warriors left. (maybe they are form a certain [very]small kingdom or somesuch?)

Note that I left out the Bard, Barbarian, Paladin, Monk and Sorcerer. Personally, I don't think any of these classes fit (and, in the case of the Barbarian, it's already represented via the Totem Barbarian alt. class). The bard just doesn't seem 'right', the Paladin is too good for this world (but alternate version do have a place in each church). The monk is just *not* going to work for this, and the sorcerer is just too flashy for this sort of game with the way his spells work. That's also the reason why many other classes didn't make the cut. I suppse you could bring sorcerers back as worshippers of Erythnul and wizards regulated to worshippers of Wee Jas, but I still think they are too flashy (and don't have the same sort of dark flavour the warlock has).

I think that's the best I could do for this, but this is a great idea, I've gotta say

cheers,
--N

 

[PallidPatience]

You could also consider the Spellthief (ComAdv) as a sort of holy rogue caste under Wee Jas, regulating the use of magic for the worthy alone.