What if you brought 4E back to 1970?

[Hairfoot]

The date makes a big difference...

That post pretty much nails it.

Remember, too, that 4E relies on tropes that were begun by D&D but incubated elsewhere.

All of the super-fantasy themes that 4E took from Magic, WoW and anime only exist because those entertainments are the spiritual descendants of OD&D. Without the low-powered heroes of 1976, fantasy adventuring would probably not be a popular concept for modern games.

Hell, I was playing Cafe World on Facebook yesterday. The game is as far from D&D as any entertainment can be, but at one point I gained a "level" because I'd earned enough "XP".

The original post assumes that the conceptual landscape of fantasy and sci-fi would be the same today without D&D. In fact, D&D of the 20th century is one of the fundamental bases of modern fantasy and game concepts.

 

[jdrakeh]

Without the low-powered heroes of 1976, fantasy adventuring would probably not be a popular concept for modern games.

They weren't really all that low-powered (frex, one hero fought as ten normal men, one hero could drop a dragon with a single arrow, etc), they were just super-powered in a different way than the heroes of recent editions. Otherwise, I agree.

 

[Byronic]

I don't think it would be a very good thing.

For one I believe that 4th edition is mostly supported because DnD is a popular brand (I don't think I would buy 4th edition if it wasn't so popular). People want to play DnD and they want to play the latest version of things because people have the idea that the latest is the best.

Another thing that 4th edition leans upon was that people were tired of certain elements of the previous edition. Said elements weren't around back then. There were no wizards that made other classes redundant on higher levels. And how would this "finely tuned" come over to the geek population which was most likely to play it? Could it be that it was TOO simple? I don't know about you but I LIKE complex systems. I think that 4th edition might have been too bland for the then market. The current market is a lot larger and has a lot more non-geeks in it then before.

And in the (in my opinion) nightmarish scenario where it did get picked up, I think the world would be a poorer place. Because even if we say the mechanics are finely tuned and nice (something I don't believe myself but lets pretend for a moment) the setting, drawings etc lack the sheer imagination and such of previous editions. I believe that it would have made the world a less fantastic place and it would certainly have been less effective in stimulating the imagination.

 

[avin]

It's interesting how people who don't like 4E think that would be bad thing.

IMO the book would provoke some revolution on the minds of the kids around. They were used to read poor colored Marvel and DC comibc books then, all of sudden that weird design and colors.

"Plastic minis? Sheets? Mats? Wow!"

The question that intrigues me is: using 4E GOOOOOOOOD vs evil approach and cartoon art would avoid the witch hunt D&D has suffered.

 

[Byronic]

It's interesting how people who don't like 4E think that would be bad thing.

IMO the book would provoke some revolution on the minds of the kids around. They were used to read poor colored Marvel and DC comibc books then, all of sudden that weird design and colors.

I'm sorry but when comparing imagination and design comics from the 70's and 80's were far superior then 4th edition DnD. Have you ever read any Dr strange comics from that time for example?

Also remember that by the 70s the world already had heroes like Spiderman and the Fantastic Four. Compare their fantastic adventures with the meagre setting of 4th edition and I don't believe there's even a contest. Also lets not remember that comics of the time were in their own way far more cutting edge then 4th edition. The 70s had comics that went against the standards of the time, for example mentioning drugs in an anti-drug storyline or creating the very first black superhero to star in his own comic. Slightly less noble but still interesting was the birth of anti-heroes in comics and the X-Men as we know them today were born.

Then again I don't think comparing comics and 4th edition is the best argument. It might even be seen as comparing apples and oranges.

The question that intrigues me is: using 4E GOOOOOOOOD vs evil approach and cartoon art would avoid the witch hunt D&D has suffered.

I give you the words "Tiefling, Warlock, Infernal Pact" Let's also not forget that you're still doing something odd and you're still performing magical spells (according to the ideas of the witchhunt)

 

[diaglo]

What would have happened if you had a finely turned rpg engine dropped into everyone's lap in the early 70s?

you would have wasted your time, money, and good name.

 

[AllisterH]

I think the DMG might surprise people because there is a lot of information on how the game might play out for an entirely new game genre. Of course, these chapters are a result of 30 years of "play-testing"; so to speak.

This is the biggest thing....

I rather have the boxed inro set for 4e AND DMG1 since you know, it actually explains and teaches roleplaying...

 

[Raven Crowking]

Personally, I'd rather use the time machine to ensure that Gary never lost control of TSR, and use my vast fortune to ensure that TSR was properly managed from a financial standpoint. WotC has loads on TSR for production values, but IMHO the game was most vital while Gygax was at the helm.

I don't see 4e as making a huge splash in 1970, sorry. And the terminology of 4e....where you play (as has been mentioned above) spell-casting half-demon warlocks with infernal pacts......really would not have gone over well in 1970. In North America, at least.

There are elements of 3e and 4e that could have improved the hobby had Gary been aware of them at the dawn of the hobby. There are a far greater number of elements, even of 2e, that would have been rejected outright.

IMHO, of course.



RC

 

[Herschel]

You'd have to be ready to mod teh Character Builder to work with punch cards. NOT an enviable task.

 

[avin]

I'm sorry but when comparing imagination and design comics from the 70's and 80's were far superior then 4th edition DnD. Have you ever read any Dr strange comics from that time for example?

Also remember that by the 70s the world already had heroes like Spiderman and the Fantastic Four. Compare their fantastic adventures with the meagre setting of 4th edition and I don't believe there's even a contest. Also lets not remember that comics of the time were in their own way far more cutting edge then 4th edition. The 70s had comics that went against the standards of the time, for example mentioning drugs in an anti-drug storyline or creating the very first black superhero to star in his own comic. Slightly less noble but still interesting was the birth of anti-heroes in comics and the X-Men as we know them today were born.

Then again I don't think comparing comics and 4th edition is the best argument. It might even be seen as comparing apples and oranges.

I disagree that 70's Marvel and DC (the period which I started reading on) were fantastic, with a few exceptions.

I'm just talking about printing quality which was, in my opinion, poor, until the 90's. And I'm not talking about the subjetive art taste here.

"Design" means something kinda different in portuguese... I should have explained better.

I don't like 4e fluff, I like the mechanics. But I try to avoid judging based on that. Just pointed that people who dislike 4E imagined the worst consequences for what OP suggested.