What If...?

[Rune]

But if that key event is fixed, then how can the timeline created from it be the alternative? Must this then not by definition be the sacred timeline?

The absoluteness of the Absolute Point is in relation to the timeline it is in. It is obviously not absolute within all timelines, because we’ve already seen one in which it didn’t occur.

The “sacredness” of the timeline was never a real thing. It was only a label the TVA used to excuse the pruning of most timelines.

 

[Ryujin]

The absoluteness of the Absolute Point is in relation to the timeline it is in. It is obviously not absolute within all timelines, because we’ve already seen one in which it didn’t occur.

The “sacredness” of the timeline was never a real thing. It was only a label the TVA used to excuse the pruning of most timelines.

Exactly. Changing the fixed point by someone whose actions are defined by that fixed point, in a given timeline, would be a non starter. All the possibilities that stem from the actions surrounding that fixed point would create their own alternate realities, with the people of that particular timeline bound by their own actions at that fixed point.

@Mirtek - Confusing enough?

 

[Gammadoodler]

It's an attack only possible with Pym Particles. Regardless if someone's thought of it, they had no way to implement it.

I suppose this is true. Pym particles do seem to exist in a MacGuffin-like quantum state where they are only as plentiful or scarce as the plot requires.

Because here's the thing. Pym worked for the government...often...over a long period of time. And it's not like he was rigorously monitoring the security over thesr things. All Cap needed was a set of green dungarees and a prank phone call to yoink some right out of the middle of Pym's lab. Just doesn't seem that farfetched to me for the government that ran the lab would have and maintain a cache of a strategic resource like this.

 

[Rune]

I suppose this is true. Pym particles do seem to exist in a MacGuffin-like quantum state where they are only as plentiful or scarce as the plot requires.

Because here's the thing. Pym worked for the government...often...over a long period of time. And it's not like he was rigorously monitoring the security over thesr things. All Cap needed was a set of green dungarees and a prank phone call to yoink some right out of the middle of Pym's lab. Just doesn't seem that farfetched to me for the government that ran the lab would have and maintain a cache of a strategic resource like this.

Especially since that government was

Spoiler: Spoiler for Captain America: Winter Soldier

infiltrated by Hydra at the time. Of course, Hydra probably had no incentive to kill the Hulk, but that doesn’t mean they wouldn’t have a contingency prepared.

 

[Blue]

I suppose this is true. Pym particles do seem to exist in a MacGuffin-like quantum state where they are only as plentiful or scarce as the plot requires.

Because here's the thing. Pym worked for the government...often...over a long period of time. And it's not like he was rigorously monitoring the security over thesr things. All Cap needed was a set of green dungarees and a prank phone call to yoink some right out of the middle of Pym's lab. Just doesn't seem that farfetched to me for the government that ran the lab would have and maintain a cache of a strategic resource like this.

Sure, but we saw from the start of Ant-man and the Wasp that he was the only one with the secret to making more. The fact that some have been yanked means that they haven't been used elsewhere, haven't been used up experimenting on them to try to reverse-engineer, or just that the chance match up of (a) the plan to use them to take out the Hulk, (b) someone who knows the Shield or the US gov't stole Pym Particles, and (c) happens while the hulk was still a threat.

For all we know that's something Ross has now in ase Hulk ever goes rogue, but didn't during the Incredible Hulk.

 

[Maxperson]

Well this time issue is a bit different. the TVA were pruning alternate timelines, creating just the one. The Watcher was talking about once an alternate timeline has been set and The Ancient was talking about key events, that can't be changed. In this case that key event is what created the alternate.

That's not what the key event was for. The ancient one explains that the key event of her death was to create Dr. Strange as Sorcerer Supreme and save the universe from Dormammu. It couldn't be changed, because then he wouldn't become Dr. Strange.

 

[trappedslider]

 

[Tonguez]

That's not what the key event was for. The ancient one explains that the key event of her death was to create Dr. Strange as Sorcerer Supreme and save the universe from Dormammu. It couldn't be changed, because then he wouldn't become Dr. Strange.

This reminded me that in the movie Strange and Palmer had broken up because of his arrogant nature, which is why he was driving alone when he had the accident. By the logic of the TVA Palmer and Strange being in love would create a new timeline AND also become an absolute point in the current timeline since without it Palmer would not be in the car to be killed in the accident etc etc.
But we also know that in another timeline the break up happened - so why didnt the universe not reassert their break up like it did Palmers death? Why did it not keep reasserting Strange’s arrogance?

Indeed if every decision point creates an absolute, there should be an entire series of nexus points in a lifetime that change things - when does the universe decide a certain nexus point is absolute and needs to be fulfilled?

magic and logic are Strange bedfellows….

 

[Maxperson]

This reminded me that in the movie Strange and Palmer had broken up because of his arrogant nature, which is why he was driving alone when he had the accident. By the logic of the TVA Palmer and Strange being in love would create a new timeline AND also become an absolute point in the current timeline since without it Palmer would not be in the car to be killed in the accident etc etc.
But we also know that in another timeline the break up happened - so why didnt the universe not reassert their break up like it did Palmers death? Why did it not keep reasserting Strange’s arrogance?

Because that wasn't the absolute point in the alternate timeline. In the original, the breakup would have been it. In the alternate, they didn't break up so the universe created another absolute point. Perhaps absolute points aren't set and absolute until they happen for the first time.

 

[Rune]

This reminded me that in the movie Strange and Palmer had broken up because of his arrogant nature, which is why he was driving alone when he had the accident. By the logic of the TVA Palmer and Strange being in love would create a new timeline AND also become an absolute point in the current timeline since without it Palmer would not be in the car to be killed in the accident etc etc.
But we also know that in another timeline the break up happened - so why didnt the universe not reassert their break up like it did Palmers death? Why did it not keep reasserting Strange’s arrogance?

Indeed if every decision point creates an absolute, there should be an entire series of nexus points in a lifetime that change things - when does the universe decide a certain nexus point is absolute and needs to be fulfilled?

magic and logic are Strange bedfellows….

Two different timelines will have different absolute points. Why? As I understand it, absoluteness of a point is reletave to the person trying to change it. In the case of this episode, it was absolute because Strange was the one trying to change it. Which is impossible, because: paradox.

But the Ancient One could have changed it, if she was so inclined. No paradox = no absolute point.