What impact would flying mounts have on a non-magical medieval-style world?

[maddman75]

Not to get political--

But for a pretty good analog, the United States vs. Iraq.

Air power may win battles, but it takes boots on the ground to effect real victory. (Assuming you want to "conquer" the enemy and not simply annihilate them.)


Wulf

I've used that principle in my game. It applies not only to air power, but to artillery and armor. And in D&D, that means PC adventurers. One instance, they decided to strike at a nearby kingdom of giants that had conquered several free cities next to their kingdom. They were high level, and sent the giants fleeing.

But they soon realized that they were in a quandry. The formerly enslaved citizens couldn't fight off the giants if they returned, and the PCs while eager to see the city remain free were not about to retire there. They had to raise an army to hold the territory. They could take territory easily enough, but it requires 'boots on the ground' to hold it.

 

[Zephyrus]

Their can be many a varied variations of what could happen. As for war which has been touched on already, there are even more things that can be done. Bombing for one could be extremely popular. Even archers can’t shoot straight up and expect to hit anything after some distance, or it'll simple lack penetrating power to do anything. So it’s highly likely that light weight explosives (alchemist fire) will become popular by airborne Calvary-bombers. Even baring that... a fair amount of damage can be achieved by dropping lead pellets or gravel from higher altitudes. A Sack of these could pepper a area and cause notable damage or injury. Counters to this tactic will likely be reinforced roofed wagons or mobile coverings (like those cheep outdoor carports, only on wheels). Great pains would be quickly made to provide covering from above which would likely result in dirt-side fortresses being built into the ground or cliff faces or especially ravines and canyon's. Likewise forested regions with redwoods and similar would provide natural barriers against airborne threats. Other innovations (like the mobile car-port mentioned here) may include bow launched grapples and other things to befoul wings. Fire also would be reasonably common as most airborne mounts are likely feathered and will avoid fire. Leather winged creatures wont have this problem but are often clumsier fliers and easier to hit with archers. Junk slingers hurling scrap metal or wood or small stones would form primitive flak batteries.

A natural evolution would suggest that they would not throw resources away heedlessly so mounted combat would be limited to fighting against other airborne foe's only resorting to bombing ground targets or fly-by strafing with missile weapons or wing buffets. Mobility is only as good as it is used. In turn long spears and lances would likely be used on both sides to counter act strafing or to provide reach on a strafing run with the air-Calvary often or likely fighting defensively/taking a cautious approach to things.

A sky kingdom would in theory often have an aversion to accidental falling and likely have precautionary measures to avoid it so more complicated addles where a rider is strapped in is likely. Parachutes or hang-gliders could likely been invented. An Air Kingdom might surprisingly have a remarkable fishing industry. not limited to coastal fishing due to the speed and range of airborne mounts, catch nets can be used further out to see. It’s possible they may set up industry dirt-side on small islands to provide rest/roost and a collection point for Airborne-fishermen. Depending on the airborne creatures at their disposal heavy-lifting could be provided by Roc's. Certainly fewer in number they could provide heavy lifting of bulk supplies or water.

Due to limited resources a minimalist approach to construction would likely be employed. Very much a ‘waste-not-want-not’ ideology. Any Agricultural industries they would have would likely make use of food sources that are easily renewable, organized and provide a high output per space. It’s possible that instead of grain or rice that fruit orchards would be popular growing 'up' instead of out. Recycling materials or waste would be popular as well. Re-use it if you can. It’s possible a pack-rat mentality would develop.

Architecture would likely be built up instead of out. Innovative thinking would likely be popular. I can almost imagine stone caverns being hollowed out inside the floating islands to be filled with water and accessed via wells. If near oceans (thus better supporting fishing) instead of freshwater sources desalinization would be necessary (unless the developed a thing for salt water). It’s likely the sky-kingdom culture wouldn’t put much faith in armor or similar and would make use of minimal clothing, or very light weight clothing. If they are powerful enough to culture airborne mounts. They might perhaps do the same with giant spiders or caterpillars and thus having a impressive silk industry.

Most of the mounts likely would be omnivores or carnivores. herbivores unless grazing is available its likely being used as a place to grow crops unless they use ground-side pastures such on mountain sides or in otherwise remote locations that generally dirt-side pastures are limited (perhaps this is why the new sky-king is so aggressive, he has a thing for Pegasus and feels they've been getting the shaft of sorts and wants more pastures for them etc... *shrug*).

Anyways... Hopefully you like these comments.

Edit: Ran through spell checker after seeing how bad it was!

 

[Warrior Poet]

You might get some good analogy by reading up on the history of flight and air combat during World War I, and how it came to effect the battlefield. I think there are some parallels with the early days of combat flight and the world you're describing.

Until 1914, the aerial presence in warfare (and life in general), was pretty much limited to observation balloons that were static, and principally used to sight for artillery (balloon use continued throughout the war).

At the start of WWI, aircraft were also pretty much limited to an observational role, and enemy pilots would sometimes wave at each other in mid flight since they couldn't really do anything to stop the other pilot from taking pictures (some carried sidearms, or a second passenger with a firearm or machine gun of some kind, but the chance of an accurate shot was miniscule). The pilots also tried to fly higher than ground based forces could accurately shoot, when possible.

Then, one day in (I think) early 1915, a German plane flew straight at a French aircraft and began firing through its propeller! The Germans had mounted steel wedges on the wooden (!) propeller that deflected the machine gun bullets that would otherwise smash the propeller (granted, eventually the kinetic shock shook the propeller to bits, so it was of limited use). Shortly thereafter, a chain linked to the propeller's rotation and synched with the firing mechanism on the machine gun was developed, and planes could dogfight (more effectively). Aircraft also began to carry bombs (though nowhere near the scale of payload seen in World War II and beyond), often dropped by hand by a pilot or observer.

Technological developments followed in WWI flight in a way that might influence how flight affects the world you're describing. It might take a while to develop effective counters, and the fliers may begin to figure out things like bundles of alchemist fire flasks dropped (bombs), or archers on wingback (gunners), etc. Though air power never was a completely deciding factor in the outcome of WWI (as Wulf Ratbane observed, you have to have troops on the ground), it was recognized as an arena that would become vital in future conflict.

Hope that helps.

Warrior Poet

 

[Warrior Poet]

Also, just thought of this, on the defense side, civilizations might start to build underground, resulting in advances in engineering, or encounters with groups that already occupy territory under the earth's surface.

Warrior Poet

 

[Endur]

Flyers have Weaknesses

Flyers have lots of weaknesses in a non-magical world.

First, Weight Limit. A non-magical flyer won't be able to fly with a heavy load. An unarmored rider may be the maximum weight lift for a Pegasi, etc. Which becomes an issue when you start to think about how to supply the Cloud Castle.

Second, temperature. The higher up, the colder it gets. Depending on how high the castle is, this could be an issue for flyers and passengers.

Third, Forests are a pain. Flyers need to have room for their wing span and can't maneuver terribly well in a forest. Think runways. This could also be an issue in an urban environment, but the flyer could land on a street in an urban environment.

 

[Tonguez]

Other than whats been suggested (reinforced roofs and things like building under a forest canopy) the dirtsiders could develop net throwing catapults to entangle the fliers and can use heavy kites with razor wire cords to provide a general defense against aeriel attacks

 

[NewJeffCTHome]

I have an idea born of a picture in my head of a division of shining-armored cavalry on gleaming white pegasi launching a furious charge against an enemy below.
So...what impact would these flying mounts have on a non-magical medieval-style world? What kind of technology would arise as a result of their existence (in particular, how would trade be conducted?)? How would transportation in the land-bound world be affected? And what kinds of battles would take place when these flying mounts are used for war?

From a military perspective - a whole division of flying troops would be a dominant force on the battlefield. In division, do you mean like 1000 of them? 10,000?

However, after the first few battles, the land based generals will adapt and try to take countermeasures - covered ballistae and archers, somebody mentioned net throwing catapults. Heck, they'd probably have whole batteries of ballista on each wall and probably pikes stuck into the areas around the ballista batteries and/or archers. Horsies don't like charging 18 foot long spears.

Sure, the pegasi can "bomb" the troops on the ground, but don't expect radar like accuracy if you want to stay out of range of a ballista bolt.

In regards to trade, you have a problem with logistics. Transporting a wagon of foodstuffs is easy when you have wheels and can pull it along the road. Lifting the whole thing up into the sky is entirely a different story. Put my mini-van in neutral, and I can push it a bit on a flat surface... no way anybody on earth can lift the whole thing up by hand, though... Sure, you can probably lify the wagon up, it - maybe in teams of 8-10 pegasi - but, then if you have to bring up 1000 wagons of food a day to keep your sky-city fed, and you have 1,000 pegasi, you're using your flying army for hard labor, which limits your army - the pegasi may be tired from the strain of lifting or just not available. And, then what happens if the pegasi charge Castle Anthrax and 50 of them get zapped by ballista, catapults and archers and another 50 are wounded... then, your already troublesome logistics problem gets very serious.

 

[jgbrowning]

A dirtside ally is a must, there is no pratical way for a flying fortress or city to support the population or livestock it needs, at least not unless you have a load of D&D clerics doing Create Food and Water all day long. So supplies would need to be regularly raised up to the city (probably via ropes) this would be its main weakness, depending on the speed of the city it could be very easy to cut off its food supplies from below.

Bah! You have a portal to the demi-plane of Pizza. Your thinking is so limited.....


joe b.

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

Forests and subterranean installations will become popular. What the eyes in the sky can't see, they can't attack.

Armor and fortifications will develop that will protect from above. The old Romans had a "tortoise" formation where the legionaries put their shields above their heads and linked them together. That will protect from spears or rocks dropped from above to some degree. City fighting and guerilla tactics will become popular as well - cramped surroundings are difficult to navigate for aerial troops, and an ambush while they are close to the ground will be lethal.

I think that this sky empire will first conquer any flat regions like plains where they can see everything from above. Forested or mountainous territory will be much harder to hold, though if they do spot an enemy in the mountains, they have an obvious advantage.

The big problems for their opponents is how to counterattack them - their cloud kingdom is basically unassailable. The long-term option is to try to steal some of these animals and create an aerial force of their own. The short-term solution is to foster corruption and dissent among the occupiers. If some local commanders are more interested in pursuing earthly pleasures and personal wealth than the expansion of the sky kingdom, then his enemies will do what they can to further this mindset. Either the sky kingdom will succumb to civil war, or there will be numerous defectors with flying mounts. Either way, the groundlings win.

 

[rbingham2000]

Again, I am liking this stuff.

Some great anti-flier tactics have been mentioned above, such as using forested areas for cover, net-throwing catapults, ballista batteries, fire, and going underground.

Logistics is something that will definitely come into play on both sides -- the nets, the ballistas and so forth have to come from somewhere, bringing the whole "eye in the sky" thing into play again.

And I've been thinking of using a very high mountain or several for the sky kingdom instead of having the place really high up in the clouds -- much more believable and less of a reliance on magic. This also opens the sky kingdom up to a counterattack, but unless the land-bound kingdoms have really strong climbers and aerial cavalry of their own, trying to attack the kingdom itself will be rather tough at best.