What is 3.0 & 3.5 missing that previous editions had?

[Mac Callum]

Remathilis - I just meant that the Iconics present one version of the Fighter, Monk, etc. while the lack of Iconics earlier provided you with more examples. I also got more inspiration from them, because they weren't just another portrait of Lidda.

Urbannen - Excellent point. D&D today does have much less of an LotR feel - which I suppose is its movement away from the Anglo-Saxon/Scandinavian roots of the game. It also is very populist and egalitarian - which are not words used to describe ancient mythology by any means.

I still don't like the move from scenic art to portrait art.

And 2E: skills & powers doesn't count. I didn't say all the art from 2E was better.

 

[rounser]

We came to the conclusion that Basic and AD&D were rooted in a mythological culture of Western Civilization, meaning Europe. The U.S. is becoming more inclusive and so is D&D. I have no problem with Ember being black, for instance. However, there really weren't any black Europeans or Asians (she's a monk) to speak of in medieval times.

I disagree with what you're inferring about the nature of the "intangible" aspect of what's different about the artwork. The style of artwork has got little to do with the colour of the character's skin (e.g. Return to the Keep on the Borderlands has a black fighter with a flail as the main focus of the cover, and it totally "looks D&D" to me), and the fact that dwarves can now be mages doesn't enter into my consideration of the style. Mialee's facial features looking like an alien looks out of place, IMO, not Ember...

 

[buzzard]

No, they can't. They don't know the encounter's CR, and they cannot calculate it from what they see either, because (unlike 2E where all monsters of a given race were identical), now any monster has as much variability as a PC.

Yes and no. You can put it together quickly enough if you really know the rules. I will admit that you can't figure out that the kobold is 5th level by watching, but in a lot of other cases it can be deduced. Truthfully, many of the cases where class levels are added to monsters the gain is minimal in effectiveness. In LG I can usually piece together the EL of an encounter pretty quickly.

Though you are correct in that you would have a quicker notion of how unpleasant an encounter was back in 2nd just by seeing what was present.

buzzard

 

[Belen]

Yes and no. You can put it together quickly enough if you really know the rules. I will admit that you can't figure out that the kobold is 5th level by watching, but in a lot of other cases it can be deduced. Truthfully, many of the cases where class levels are added to monsters the gain is minimal in effectiveness. In LG I can usually piece together the EL of an encounter pretty quickly.

Though you are correct in that you would have a quicker notion of how unpleasant an encounter was back in 2nd just by seeing what was present.

buzzard

You are correct, sir. My players can usually figure out the basic attack, damage, AC etc of their opponents within 1-2 rounds.

Any...knowledge of the ruleset can really allow players to come up with tactical solutions to enemies that their characters would never imagine.

Not that anything is wrong with having players think more tactically for combat, just that some of the feeling is missing.

 

[Janx]

The question on encounters is, do your players KNOW you run encounters tightly to "fair" CRs.

Do you tell them they're facing 4 kobolds, or 4 small reptilloid dog men.

In my campaign world, the only race available for PCs is human. I've got a tight list of available classes (no barbarians, sorcerers or rangers), That's limits, but its limits by campaign world, not 'cuz Gary says so.

Monsters get complicated when you use the fancy ones with special features. In the beginning, a DM would be running the easy stuff like orcs, kobolds and a spider for variety. The DM would get slowly exposed to the more complex abilities. I've been hosed more times by not studying the monsters special abilities as a GM (ie. forgetting they can do a certain thing) in all game systems than I can count. The key ios to know the critter has grapple. If you can't find the rules for grapple, the "fudge" rule comes in and you make up a resolution method for it.

Janx

 

[diaglo]

Uh-huh.

Number of WOTC D&D releases in 2003: 15
Number of TSR AD&D/D&D releases in 1993: 64

You were saying?

i think some of those ADnD/D&D releases in the 64 you are using from 1993 also include things like...

the AD&D Collector card sets...3 of them to be exact. and the novels and other games.

if you want to lie with statistics you should at least post the complete lists

 

[hong]

The universe created by the founders of D&D from a collective European fantasy is now a kewl place to have adventures, not a place to communicate with the collective thought of our ancestors.

I can communicate with the collective thought of my ancestors easily enough. It usually involves hallucinogens.

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

I haven't read all of these, so maybe someone has mentioned it already - Fighters with 18/xx strength clearly being the strongest in the party. That extra percentage only available to the fighter class set them apart. Now a first level wizard can be as strong as someone who has supposedly spent his early life training with weapons and wearing armor.

(On the flip side, I like that stats can now go over 18, without magical assitance, as you level up)

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

Treasure and magic were your biggest sources of XP. At mid to high levels you could kill a horde of monsters and not advance a level, but you stumble into a room with a treasure trove of goodies and suddenly *ping* you have been granted another level.

I don't miss that at all (although 3.x DMs need to be sure to give XP for non-combat situations - the CR system seems to create more DMs who only consider what you killed in determining XP).

 

[K'Plah Q'Houme]

I miss the 'weapon mastery' option, where a player could become 'Grand Master'. There was a nice feeling to this.

There is a lot of things that was good about the old series of D&D, but all the same, I would say that the new aditions are just fine...